WC 872 for 45-70

[daengmei]

Want to use this for a 350 grain lee cast boolit in a Marlin guide gun. GiBrass.com says AA8700 data is usable. The older AA manual available on this site shows no info for that light a boolit but shows using 57g (8700) for 378g boolit. If I put 57g into the casing, the base of the PB boolit is showing the small powder indentations, so there is some compression, can't hear powder rattle. That's after seating the boolit deep enough to stop if from bumping the chamber lead, about .015 deeper that COAL in the Lyman cast bullet handbook.

According to the data I found some time ago also on this site for 45-70 surplus loads using surplus WC872, it shows using 67g with a 405g patched boolit. It is a different lot of powder but that seems like a great deal of compression. This info was in a chart form that I saved some time ago.

My question is what starting point load should be ok for this boolit and powder?

By the way, an old army SGM friend of mine thinks I'm nuts for using this powder.

Thanks for any help,
Jim

[daengmei]

With so many using this powder I thought some help would surface. Not to worry, I used what I started with and found fairly acceptable results at both 50 and 100yrds, even though my eyesight won't reach 100. Additionally I shot some cast .310 using a dipper full of WC870 (3.4 Lee dipper equates to 49.4gr of 8700) and a 175gr cast bullet for 7.62x54. Using a Saco M39 Mosin Nagant at 50yrds I got a really nice group, although a little low of POA. Also at 50 using a cutdown (not by me) reworked Westinghouse M38 Mosin Nagant I got a bigger grouping, but the cast bullet nearly falls into the bore so it is too small. Both 45-70 and 7.62x54 loads left unburnt powder so I should be able to work this better, both loads and cast size.

I got this far through reading and trying to absorb the tons of data on this site and appreciate the help I've found.
First pic is turned 90 degree left....? what I did? 5 shots 45-70 at 50yrd. 340gr Lee cast using 57gr WC872 and Tula LR primer.

Second is 7.62x54 below. M39 at 50yds using 3.4 dipper of WC872, 175gr cast and Tula LR magnum primer. Cut off the bottom 2 shots..sight set for 300yds and still low of POA.

Third uncircled are M39 again with same load only using factory berdan primed casings.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Was this basically a full case in the 7.62x54?

I've been wondering if it would work in the .45-70 too.

I've subscribed to this thread.

[daengmei]

Not quite. I could shake the powder for sound. I will load a bit more till I get no noise/bottom of bullet and reply with that. Also trying a magnum primer to hopefully burn more powder.

[9w1911]

very interested !!!

[Mark Daiute]

I use 872 frequently in my trapdoors. I use the lee 405gr hollow based bullet over 60 grains of 872. I blow down the bore after each shot and simply keep shoting. I use magnum primers. I've done this enough times that I've gone through an 8lb jug. Accuracy is very good, recoil is mild and the load matches the sites. Good, Fun. Cheap.

[Les Staley]

I, too have had great success with 872 in my 45-70s. A 5gr kicker of 4198 cleans up the loose kernels of un burnt powder in the bore. Search this forum for kicker loads and see the many choices of Kick powders. Loads should be compressed to keep kick powder from migrating off the primer into main load. 872 burns cleaner with good compression. I have gotten great groups and very low SDs.

[daengmei]

I posted pics above. The magnum primer left just a bit of unburned powder, but the powder was not yet compressed. Overall I'm quite pleased with the initial shots.

[rupe01]

Yep, i agree with using 5 to 8 grains of about any fast-ish pistol/rifle kicker to clean up the kernels left. I have used my WC872 in 7.62x54R, .303, .308, .243, 7.5x54 French MAS, 45-70, 8mm Mauser and they all worked great provided a small kicker was used first and then topped up with WC872 and light to heavy compression. All burned cleanly. Just out of curiosity i even tried it in .454 Casull and again it worked fine! I have also found that it works fine WITHOUT the kicker in 7.5x55 Swiss with heavy boolits and 25-06. Kickers that i have tried include Unique, Red Dot, Blue Dot, IMR 4277, 2400, and W231. All worked fine, but just remember to add the kicker FIRST and the load needs to be somewhat compressed at least enough to stop movement/migration. Its a great way to use up that really cheap powder.....i still have about 44lbs to use up! But at around 6 cents for a full rifle case it makes me smile as i shoot, knowing i am not paying the new rip-off powder prices.

[Freightman]

WC 872 for a 45/70 50/70 is fine a casefull 60 gr and a 500gr boolit is 1190 fps, put 3cc scoop of 3031 in and the velocity goes up to 1345fps on a 45/70 havent tried the 50 70 yet on a duplex load but the pressure is about what BP produces. The 30/06 03A3 i use 63 gr and no kicker a 200 gr boolit is 2230fps, so no duplex needed.

[Char-Gar]

I have used WC872 in the 45-70 with both the RCBS 405 FNGC and a heavy 500 grain GC flatnose. I would have to look it up, but I used a case full of powder adjust to give a light compression with the bullets I used.

Pressures were mild and accuracy was good. You can't get enough of this very slow powder in the case to get you into trouble. I used an ignition charge of 3/3031 to get a clean burn.