I have been reading about 50/50 WW to pure mix for hunting boolits. I cast up some 405 gr. 458's about 3 weeks ago and I'm getting a 6 to 7 bhn . That is with the Saeco tool. I think my pure wheel weights are testing 7 bhn. What am I missing here ?
I have been reading about 50/50 WW to pure mix for hunting boolits. I cast up some 405 gr. 458's about 3 weeks ago and I'm getting a 6 to 7 bhn . That is with the Saeco tool. I think my pure wheel weights are testing 7 bhn. What am I missing here ?
You need to calibrate your tester with known pure lead and linotype.
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
One thing I found out the hard way is letting the bullets or ingots age for about 2 1/2 weeks. Believe it or don't it makes a difference. I made some hardball
alloy and tested it the next day and was getting 9.5 to 10 bnh, after 2 weeks I was getting 15 to 16 BNH.
Unless you have some really soft WW's, I would expect you to end up about 9 BHN. I have shot this alloy to almost 2,200 fps from my Marlin in .35 Rem with excellent accuracy and 0 leading. I expect no problems with expansion, maybe too much if anything.
I have yet to get the BHN for WW what they are claimed to be…
I generally get what the SAECO scale shows—a BHN of ~9.0 (SAECO 6.0) for WW and a BHN of 5.0 (SAECO 0.0) for pure lead…
So, I think a BHN of 6-7 for your alloy might be inline…
Good-luck…BCB
I've tested many wheel weight bullets and ingots, and consistently get 12 BHN. I believe your instrument requires calibration, as noted by Outpost75.
I've used the Lee tester most often, but I also use a dissecting microscope to measure the indent. The microscope is just for comparison, it's too expensive to keep out in my shop. I've also mixed 0.25/3.00/96.75 tin/antimony/lead alloy to approximate wheel weight metal, and it tests to 12 BHN also. I don't think the 12 BHN figure is to be doubted.
WW's have been recycled so many times we have no idea. Mine are very old and I dread starting over when they are gone.
For a 50-50 mix you are better off heat treating them for a better grip to rifling but it will not change the mess to an animal at all. I will not use that soft again after seeing what a revolver does to deer. Mine were heat treated to 20 BHN. I don't think I will go with less then 75-25 again. I hate to kill a deer and lose 1/4 of the meat!
Many look for too soft for hunting, I just can't imagine 2,200 fps!!! BANG-SPLASH!
Space station has meat on the solar panels.
I would reserve soft for BP velocities.
Fair enough, but it appears SAECO doesn't think wheel weights are in the 12 BHN category--more the 9.0 BHN...
I go on what my SAECO says. I trust it. The vernier lines are pretty much a given when it comes to reading the SAECO hardness. There is simply too much room for error trying to measure a dimple, let alone the even amount of pressure to make the dimple--I've watched several uTubes on how to use it and it seems a bit destined to produce error...
One advantage I see is the fact it can measure the BHN of a piece of alloy without having to have the boolit in line and in a proper diameter recess to hold the boolit properly...
Good-luck...BCB
My LBT generally says 12+BHN on my 20+ year old WW's
If you follow the directions, the Lee is easy enough to read, assuming filing flat means you really get a flat surface. If you don't then you need to do it over again, not guess at dimple sizes.
I can put 3 dimples down on a filed flat and they will all be within one microscope increment.
I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
How to find and fix sizing die eccentricity problems.
Do you trust your casting thermometer?
A few musings.
My w/w says 12 on my Lee tester and has been consistent for yrs ,might not be the most expensive tester but it gives a baseline that works for calculations .And does compare favorable with other test results
Clip WW only? I still get about 10bhn on my CabinTree. I don't really worry much about BHN, fit is more important, unless looking at rifle bullets. 10bhn works fine in all my handgun loads from 800fps-1300fps.
EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol
Keep in mind that these Pb, Sn, Sb alloys have a trace of arsenic and will age harden. My old stash of WW, 20-40 years ago cast at 9 BHN on the LBT and in ten days tested at 12 BHN. Back then we thought that was standard and with today's WW anything goes. I'm down to 300-400 pounds of old WW. You will get a harder bullet the longer you wait to test up to about two weeks.
This alloy can harden to maybe 18 BHN when dropped from the mold into a bucket of H2O. Oven heat treat goes to the high twenties into the thirties. I don't do that anymore but have.
Chill Wills
I water drop to speed the hardening time. My best accuracy comes in about 3 days. The sooner I shoot after loading, the better. I see an accuracy drop off when I let loads sit a long time. Boolits did not soften but since I use a lot of case tension I think the brass relaxes. Brass does not relax evenly and the closer tension is case to case, the better.
I will repeat this forever, 90% of accuracy problems are brass related and the revolver is the hardest to tame.
I NEVER fit brass to a boolit because of the alloy and softness. I keep the boolit hard and for any expansion I soften the nose. You will never see an "M" expander or over size one in my house. I don't believe in "bump up." Fit is where it is. With the Hornady expander my boolit does the last expansion of the brass. I will not allow brass to size a boolit.
Another thing I figured out is with a GC boolit. Don't seat them larger then the boolit. If your boolit is .430", never put checks on with a larger size die. The check will expand the brass and reduce tension on the boolit body.
If your primer pops the boolit out before ignition, you wasted all your time.
I don't do this for fun but someone will always tell you to SOFTEN and over expand.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |