Something Quite Disturbing to me

[Artful]

Found this thread about a catastrophic shooting "accident"
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/7...g_.html&page=1

Seems someone went shooting with their 223 AR's with store bought ammo but somehow a
300 blackout cartridge found it's way into a 223 ammo box and of course blew up the rifle.
Fortunately the shooter wasn't hurt when it went off.

300 Blackout round fired in 223 rifle mistakenly

What was poked out of barrel




And another person reported that he bought a box of ammo and noticed a cartridge was swapped for a different cartridge in his box of ammo.

It would appear that some prankster or some of the Anti-gunner crowd are trying gorilla warfare type tactics.

So if your buying ammo - please check that you are actually getting what you think you are.

And if you find anything unusual you don't place it into your firearm. My next concern is if they take to putting correct cartridge hand loaded with overload of fast powder into factory boxes.

[merlin101]

I never thought of anti-gun terrorism. A few years ago I bought a box of (IIRC) .45acp and right in the middle was one cartridge that was different (.460Rowland)?? I never paid much attention thinking maybe a factory screw up or someone at the store comparing the two.

[edler7]

Just one more reason to load 'em myself. If I find something like that, I know right where to find the guy that did it.

[Butchman205]

More and more...I prefer to roll my own.
This is another reason why.


-Butchman

[EMC45]

Buying ammo? What is this you talk about?

[smokeywolf]

I've never owned or even shot an AR platform. How does a 300 BO chamber in a 223 to the point that the bolt will close and the gun can fire? Also, how can the guy charging the magazine(s) not notice the difference between the 223s and a 300 BO? A 300 BO will fit in a 223 magazine?

[Harter66]

This is the 4-5th 300 BO in a 223/556 blow up I've seen this yr .

I have a couple of questions .
How is it possible to chamber a 300 in a 223/556 AR ?
That's like getting a 308 bolt closed on a 358 Winchester .
The 300 is over twice the 223 bullet and neck diameter and the same OAL .
When loading a magazine you didn't notice a round with no neck and a bullet even in extremes 1.5-3x maybe 5x as heavy . 55 vs 250 or 72 vs 125 . You maybe didn't notice it when you loaded a stripper clip .... That's like not noticing a Peterbuilt in a parking lot of pickups .
I've never pulled down a factory round but there are a lot of handloaders that use a full case of powders like H110 so breach seating and neck sizing doesn't work as a theory for me here .

I've seen my share of Weatherby shoulders on 7mm RM brass but have shoved a few new empty cases in a 264 WM in a 98 , I don't see it with a seated bullet on a full case and that's only .007 .

That leaves a load with only a half case powder and a very very heavy spring on a 223 lower or hammering on the forward assist.

Pay attention .......

These 2 cartridges aren't like getting a 350 RM in a 7mm STW .

[WebMonkey]

Same smokeywolf.
How does a 30 chamber in a 22.
I can see mashing the projectile with the foward assist, but not the brass with projectile in it.

yes, the 300 blackout was intentionally designed to 'work' in stock magazines.
part of the 'selling point' of the blackout cartridge.

swap your barrel and away you go from, 5.56 to 300BO.

[Artful]

I've never owned or even shot an AR platform. How does a 300 BO chamber in a 223 to the point that the bolt will close and the gun can fire?

Also, how can the guy charging the magazine(s) not notice the difference between the 223s and a 300 BO? A 300 BO will fit in a 223 magazine?

300 blackout is made from a shortened 223 case and is designed such that the only change to the rifle is a barrel change to shoot it in an AR.

[Artful]

This is the 4-5th 300 BO in a 223/556 blow up I've seen this yr .

I have a couple of questions .
How is it possible to chamber a 300 in a 223/556 AR ?

See answer above

That's like getting a 308 bolt closed on a 358 Winchester.

No, the 358 is based on a full length 308 case - the 300 blackout on a shortened case.

The 300 is over twice the 223 bullet and neck diameter and the same OAL.

COAl is the same so as to operate from the magazine yes, not case length.
and the danger is firing a .308 trying to get it to squeeze down to .224.

When loading a magazine you didn't notice a round with no neck and a bullet even in extremes 1.5-3x maybe 5x as heavy . 55 vs 250 or 72 vs 125 . You maybe didn't notice it when you loaded a stripper clip .... That's like not noticing a Peterbuilt in a parking lot of pickups .
I've never pulled down a factory round but there are a lot of handloaders that use a full case of powders like H110 so breach seating and neck sizing doesn't work as a theory for me here .

I've seen my share of Weatherby shoulders on 7mm RM brass but have shoved a few new empty cases in a 264 WM in a 98 , I don't see it with a seated bullet on a full case and that's only .007 .

That leaves a load with only a half case powder and a very very heavy spring on a 223 lower or hammering on the forward assist.

Pay attention .......

These 2 cartridges aren't like getting a 350 RM in a 7mm STW .

New shooter might not even notice it didn't look like the others - we were all there once.
But my concern is complacency about accepting that it's new box and we don't examine
them like we should - especially if someone tampers with the contents at the store.

[starmac]

It could be and sure might have been an antigunner that swapped the ammo.
That said without knowing the guy that shot it, but knowing a lot of folks that shouldn't even look at a firearm hard, it could have also been some guy that wanted to see how well it shot, or if it would. I don't expect he would admit doing it on purpose if it was.

[Blackwater]

Good post, Artful. Thanks. Could be as you fear, or could also be some idjit who was looking at ammo putting them back into different (wrong boxes). No telling, really, but one ALWAYS needs too pay attention to anything that looks out of place. Just goes to point up that even factory ammo isn't "foolproof!" They keep making better and better fools every day .... and the malicious.

[Artful]

It could be and sure might have been an antigunner that swapped the ammo.
That said without knowing the guy that shot it, but knowing a lot of folks that shouldn't even look at a firearm hard, it could have also been some guy that wanted to see how well it shot, or if it would. I don't expect he would admit doing it on purpose if it was.

Except that he states neither of them own a 300 blackout - and I have seen multiple people now (even on this board) that report that their factory box of ammo had an incorrect caliber cartridge in the box.

And I'd be willing to bet that the ammo Factories have very strict procedures to see that it won't happen on their end.

[Echo]

One time at our range a guy shot a 7mm Mauser round in a 7mm Mag rifle. Shot, don't know if it hit near aim point, but sure modified the case. He said, 'Well, it's 7mm, isn't it?'. They are out there...

[Pine Baron]

Reminds me of project Pole Bean.

[Harter66]

Must be why 20ga is yellow and 16ga used to be purple .

I've seen the cases sxs but never in a chamber cut away I guess it is like getting the 350 in a 7STW .
Still you'd think.......

[Artful]

One time at our range a guy shot a 7mm Mauser round in a 7mm Mag rifle. Shot, don't know if it hit near aim point, but sure modified the case. He said, 'Well, it's 7mm, isn't it?'. They are out there...

I seen that in reverse when I was safety officer at the range one day - guy trying his darndest to slam a cartridge in his "new to him" Surplus Mexican Mauser in 7x57 - had been sold a box of 7mm Remington Magnums - 'cuz he just asked for a box of 7mm.

[Artful]

Must be why 20ga is yellow and 16ga used to be purple .

I've seen the cases sxs but never in a chamber cut away I guess it is like getting the 350 in a 7STW .
Still you'd think.......

Oh, it's bad's when you have a newbie drop a 20 in a 12 also.



Frankly, I was surprised not more damage to AR and shooter with the 300 blackout incident.
- New Bolt and Barrel and inspect upper for cracks and away you go.

[OeldeWolf]

I thought that it was Operation Patriot's Son in the Viet Namh War, which mixed in rounds designed to blow up when fired, into NVN supplies? Tnhough I had a friend (USMC) who said he left sabotaged AK's and magazines for the NV's to find.

[2wheelDuke]

I've always been afraid of a mixup between .223/5.56 and 300blk. Most of the loads I prefer to shoot in .300blk won't chamber in the .223 because the boolit starts to headspace the round too early. But there's always that chance of it being pushed further back into the case and compressing the powder. It seems to be mostly the lighter jacketed 300's that are able to chamber in a .223.

I try to use a different style of magazine for each to minimize the chances of a mistake.

I remember shooting with a friend when I had 2 1911's. One had a .400 cor-bon barrel in it. For those that aren't familiar, .400 cor-bon is a .45acp case necked down to .40 caliber. I had things set up so that each gun had it's appropriate ammo, and they were on separate benches.

Somehow, a magazine of cor-bon rounds made their way into the .45acp gun anyway. My friend started shooting, and wondered why it sounded so quiet. I don't believe it cycled, so he cleared it. After a couple times, I looked and saw what was going on. The boolits weren't making it to the target and the cases were blowing back out to .45acp dimensions. Fortunately they weren't the other way around.