Deer with a rbh and 45 colt

[sac]

I have been lurking for awhile and decided to join, I have been casting for about ten years now and really enjoy it.
Going to start hunting deer with a hand gun, and have a RBH in 45colt and looking for a good load and bullet mold. I was thinking a 255-260 gr. swc would work good. and I would like to get a good 300gr mold some time also and se that the lee gets good reviews.
I forgot to mention that the hunting will be in Iowa and shot from 25 to 100 yards.

Thanks Scott

[DougGuy]

Hey Scott and welcome to the forum!

Boy this will generate some responses, it is only like the most favored straight walled handgun cartridge to load for.

Basically, a LSWC will work, but I think the RF style boolits with the wide flat meplats on the nose work better.

One of the favored heavy for caliber boolits is the Lee C452-300-RF which runs about 320gr lubed and checked, these find much favor over full house charges of H110, but are really overkill for deer. Bear and hog, they are very effective. These would be loaded to the Ruger Only loads found in load manuals, 30,000psi max in a full sized RBH. Lots of recoil, but really more than necessary. I have shot a LOT of these boolits, loaded hot, they are fun for a while but really punishing on the hands in the long run, and again, much more than necessary.

The Lee molds for this boolit are hit or miss as to what size they will drop, and there is/was a group buy for the same boolit in an "improved" format with better crimp grooves, and a better fitting gas check shank. I would vote the improved design over the Lee although they both work.

A boolit I have been shooting recently and very impressed with are the LBT WFN designs, there are three in the 250gr weight, the WFN-PB, the WFN-GC and the shorter fatter almost a straight wadcutter with very slight ogival sides, the OWC-PB. For deer hunting these would be HARD to top, and don't need to be driven beyond 1200fps to be effective.

Cast in 50/50+2% with soft lube (Felix or randyrat tac1), this alloy just barely soft enough you can scratch it with a thumbnail, takes to Ruger's rifling and 1:16" twist like a duck to water, and never have to clean the bore.

There are my recommendations for a heavyweight, and a typical weight in .45 Colt.

L to R: LBT 250gr OWC-PB, LBT 250gr WFN-PB, LBT 250gr WFN-GC



320gr Lee C452-300-RF:

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Sheeesh, Doug--now that's a crimp!

[sac]

Hey Scott and welcome to the forum!

Boy this will generate some responses, it is only like the most favored straight walled handgun cartridge to load for.

Basically, a LSWC will work, but I think the RF style boolits with the wide flat meplats on the nose work better.

One of the favored heavy for caliber boolits is the Lee C452-300-RF which runs about 320gr lubed and checked, these find much favor over full house charges of H110, but are really overkill for deer. Bear and hog, they are very effective. These would be loaded to the Ruger Only loads found in load manuals, 30,000psi max in a full sized RBH. Lots of recoil, but really more than necessary. I have shot a LOT of these boolits, loaded hot, they are fun for a while but really punishing on the hands in the long run, and again, much more than necessary.

The Lee molds for this boolit are hit or miss as to what size they will drop, and there is/was a group buy for the same boolit in an "improved" format with better crimp grooves, and a better fitting gas check shank. I would vote the improved design over the Lee although they both work.

A boolit I have been shooting recently and very impressed with are the LBT WFN designs, there are three in the 250gr weight, the WFN-PB, the WFN-GC and the shorter fatter almost a straight wadcutter with very slight ogival sides, the OWC-PB. For deer hunting these would be HARD to top, and don't need to be driven beyond 1200fps to be effective.

Cast in 50/50+2% with soft lube (Felix or randyrat tac1), this alloy just barely soft enough you can scratch it with a thumbnail, takes to Ruger's rifling and 1:16" twist like a duck to water, and never have to clean the bore.

There are my recommendations for a heavyweight, and a typical weight in .45 Colt.

L to R: LBT 250gr OWC-PB, LBT 250gr WFN-PB, LBT 250gr WFN-GC



320gr Lee C452-300-RF:

Thank you Sir, I have been reading about using a softer lube and was wondering if my black powder lube would work. It is very similar to SPG lube.

Thanks again Scott

[DougGuy]

Thank you Sir, I have been reading about using a softer lube and was wondering if my black powder lube would work. It is very similar to SPG lube.

Thanks again Scott

Yes SPG lube works very well on cast boolits in the Rugers for me.

Sheeesh, Doug--now that's a crimp!

This is a collet style crimp. Works VERY good on heavy boolits.

[M-Tecs]

Doug is spot on. In the mid 70's I took two deer with 45 Colt with a Lyman 454190 in a Colt clone. I cast the bullets soft due to the round nose design. Worked well but not as well a the larger meplat bullets that I started using later and Doug is recommending. My point is more than enough power if placed properly.

[Pipefitter]

Just dont expect to recover a fired bullet inside the deer, every one I have shot with a 45LC has had an entry and an exit wound.

[sac]

Another question, are you guys using h110 powder with the LBT bullets only or are you using unique to get velocities to 1000 fps. Or are you running up to 1200 fps. Sorry for the newbie questions.

[dubber123]

Another question, are you guys using h110 powder with the LBT bullets only or are you using unique to get velocities to 1000 fps. Or are you running up to 1200 fps. Sorry for the newbie questions.

H110 is a poor choice for reduced loads, and you can even get into hang fires, misfires or other not fun stuff. If less than full throttle is your goal, something in the 2400 range is good for 80-90% loads, and faster powders such as Unique or Power Pistol fill in the slower velocity role well.

[DougGuy]

^^^^ Second this advice, *do not* download H110 below published starting weights.

2400, LilGun, AA#9, HS-6, Green Dot, are all good for the 1100 ~ 1200fps power band in .45 Colt with a 250gr boolit. I started using the 250gr LBT boolits specifically to target that velocity spread. I can get 1200fps from the .45 Schofield loads in my medium framed Vaquero, and still stay under 23,000psi with 21.5gr H110. This is snappy but not at all as sharp as touching off a full snort of H110 under one of the 300gr RF boolits.

It goes like this.. The lighter the boolit, the faster burning powder you can use, for this you get a higher % of powder burned, and generally have a very efficient load. Heavier booilts need slower powder to avoid over-pressure events. It is not a wise choice to use Unique under the 300gr RF, but 9.5 to 10.0gr Unique under any of the LBT 250gr boolits will get you pretty close to 1100fps maybe a tad more.

You can find loads that use more than 10.0gr Unique under a 250gr boolit that will get you to 1200fps but I have a thing about not loading over 10.0gr in .45 Colt, beyond this Unique can become spiky and unpredictable so I don't go there out of personal preference. If I need to push Unique that close to the edge, it's time to think another powder.

[sac]

Thanks for the info, the only 45 colt that I have loaded is 3f and that's simple for the most part. That's why I came here to get info on the newer hunting boolits and powder. I have been reading a lot by Taffin but he mostly talks about the Keith style bullets with unique. I will get the 250 lbt owc and load it with unique, I think that would work good for white tails, and get one of the 300 gr lees and load it with h110.

[sac]

I do have some Schofield brass, might be fun to try the load you mentioned.

[runfiverun]

the cool thing about the 45 colt is you just ain't gotta overthink it, the government used to actually do useful things back in the olden day's.
they designed the 45 colt and it's boolits to be able to stop a horse.
its original loading was with black powder [@40gr AIRC] and a 250gr round flat boolit cast from 40 parts lead and 1 part tin.
the velocity from the 73 colt was about 900fps.
you can go heavier and you can go faster but you probably won't be shooting too many horses.

I generally use an everyday load consisting of a 250gr rnfp made by lyman [452664] cast from ww's and soft lead 3 parts to 1 on top of 9.3grs of unique.
this is loaded in about 70% of my brass, and get's shot through everything [Ruger's and Rossi's] but my usfa's.
I also have a load consisting of 19.3grs of 2400 which is in the 1625 fps area out of my lever-guns using the same boolit. [which accounts for about 10% of my brass]
it's a bit much for a 200lb deer within 100yds.

my final load is a 165gr or 225gr rnfp on top of 4.8grs of clays which I use to snipe grouse and just poke at stuff in my usfa's.
it basically duplicates a 45 acp type load but at lower 73 colt type pressures.

[sixshot]

Lots of good advice here & you can't go wrong with a Ruger 45, they can do it all. My 260 gr. Keith slug gets 9 grs. of Unique for everyday use & 18.5 grs. of 2400 if I'm mad at something. I've taken deer with both & 2 elk with the second load. Another long time favorite load for many 45 shooters is 20 grs. of 4227 with the same bullet.
If I'm really serious about elk I load a 320 gr. LBT with a heavy charge of H110 & a CCI mag primer, I've taken 2 elk with this load but couldn't see any difference between it & the 260 Keith, I got complete penetration on all 4 elk. Really no need for gas checks although you might get a slight boost in accuracy, maybe. I powder coat everything, pretty much acts like a poor man's gas check. Hard to beat the 45 in a Ruger sixgun & good brass. I never run over 1200 fps & deer, elk & bear hate it.
The grandson's took the horses last week & checked a couple of our waterholes, this was on the trail cam.

These are big bears, the front one is huge! We'll kill one of them.

Dick

[DougGuy]

I do have some Schofield brass, might be fun to try the load you mentioned.

It would not be as accurate as loading the same boolit in .45Colt brass, as you have unsupported freebore in front of the chamfer. Your BH will shoot much better when the boolit is seated fully into the throat of the cylinder in .45 Colt brass. My .45 Schofield Vaquero has a cylinder that I reamed for .45 Schofield brass so it has no unsupported freebore like shooting .38 Spl in .357 Magnum cylinder.

In Schofield brass, with WLP primers, the 250gr OWC-PB seated to 1.368" COA a charge of 9.0gr Unique is about max, velocity will be around 1050fps. You would NOT want any of these loads straying into a top break S&W or a clone of a top break! This load is SIGNIFICANTLY higher pressure than an old gun or a clone could safely stand.

In .45 Colt brass, with WLP primers, the 250gr OWC-PB seated to 1.555" COA a charge of 10.0gr Unique is about max, velocity will be around 1050fps.

Beyond these max suggested weights of Unique, little is gained in velocity before pressure climbs rapidly. This is why I suggest looking for a slower powder if you want to push the 250gr closer to 1200fps.

Hodgdon calls for 25.7gr H110 as a minumum starting weight in .45 Colt with the 250gr XTP bullet, citing 27,000cups (copper units) and a max of 26.5gr citing 29,800cups of pressure. Velocities listed are 1398fps and 1455fps respectively. These are at the TOP of the pressure ceiling for the Ruger Only loads in a BH or original large framed Vaquero.

Unique runs out of headroom falling short at getting into that 1170 ~ 1200fps sweet spot and H110 even at the starting loads exceeds it.

Save the H110 loads for bear and hog. Find something between Unique and H110 for your hunting loads, you will be much happier shooting them and may be more accurate, the gun will take to them better, and the deer won't know any difference.

23.0gr LilGun would be a decent starting point, 25.0gr max. You may likely drop below 23.0gr to 22.0gr and be okay because (and THIS is IMPORTANT!) the 250gr OWC-PB sits low in the case, .325" of the boolit sits below the case mouth. Although the boolit weights are the same as the 250gr XTP listed on the Hodgdon data, it is the USER'S RESPONSIBILITY to measure the two boolits, and see if the base of one sits lower in the case than the base of the boolit they use in their published data, you MUST compensate load data to accommodate the different case capacity below the boolit! Failure to do this can be disastrous! You probably already know this but you cannot just arbitrarily use the boolit weights interchangeably, you must take into account differences in the overall COA and differences in the volume of the case below the seated boolit.

The Hodgdon COA for their 250gr XTP is listed as 1.600" the COA using 1.285" .45 Colt brass and the 250gr LBT OWC-PB is 1.555" a difference of .045" which if you are loading cowboy loads, or target loads, 8.0gr of Unique or so, isn't a big deal. However when you get into the Ruger Only levels and 30,000psi pressures, .045" is a BIG DEAL, and must be compensated for to avoid an over-pressure event.

I would look into LilGun, 2400, AA#9, Herco and also HS-6 are just slow enough compared to Unique to work for you.

[sac]

Thank you, this is the kind of info that I have been looking for. I have been reloading for 30 + years and have always stayed in the middle of the load data except for my short stint with a uspsa open gun in 38 super loaded beyond any load data.
After looking at the burn rate chart and looking at Hodgdon load data, has anyone tried longshot? I have some and it looks in the right burn rate for the velocity I'm looking for.

[DougGuy]

I haven't used longshot but it is marginally faster than HS-6 and seems to be slightly lower pressure. Looks like it would be very much worth a try with the OWC-PB boolit.

Veral Smith says these OWC-PB wadcutters are pretty accurate at supersonic velocities. Next deer hunt I take a pistol on will be the 250gr OWC-PB over 21.5gr H110 in my .45 Schofield Vaquero.

Veral also writes in his book about the "pressure wave" created by the wide meplat boolit designs and credits this pressure wave with creating a significant wound channel and is pretty specific about not driving it to maximum velocities as this presents a less effective pressure wave and that the sweet spot from what I could gather is 1180 ~ 1200fps. I admit I have not read his book, but I got this straight from Veral over the phone.

[rodwha]

I'm curious why not a more standard velocity around 1000 fps with a 250 grn bullet? They've done quite well on medium game for a very long time.

Kaido's 255 grn version of the Lee bullet cast about 7-10 BHN and traveling around 900 fps easily travels nose to tail through an adult hog.

[sac]

I'm curious why not a more standard velocity around 1000 fps with a 250 grn bullet? They've done quite well on medium game for a very long time.

Kaido's 255 grn version of the Lee bullet cast about 7-10 BHN and traveling around 900 fps easily travels nose to tail through an adult hog.

That's what I came to this forum for, was to find out what is working for them to humanly take deer. This is the kind of info I'm looking for, what powder are you using?

[rodwha]

I haven't used a handgun to hunt with and don't have a .45 Colt. However I do have a Ruger Old Army and reproduction Remington New Model Army (technically .45 caliber). I looked into getting .45 Colt (standard level 400+ ft/lbs) as I knew it has had a good reputation for a very long time.

Without maxing out on the black powder charges I am likely getting 450-500 ft/lbs with a 195 grn WFN bullet from my Ruger and about 350-425 ft/lbs with my Remington using my 170 or 195 grn bullets.

But the thing is that these black powder percussion pistols do rather well with a ~140 grn ball that will likely give a complete passthrough on a broadside deer. I just prefer a wider meplat with a bit more mass as I also hunt hogs, though I've yet to purchase my 245 grn version from Accurate Molds.

Elmer Keith also spoke of a .44 Dragoon used to kill Grizzlies with head shots from a tree using a ball. It also was used to kill buffalo by riding next to them and shooting them through the vitals.

One big difference is that these soft lead projectiles don't usually expand as readily or as large as a modern hollow point. But then handgun hog hunters typically use a hard cast lead WFN bullet in a large caliber that doesn't expand at all, but certainly kills hogs quite well.

Even the .44 Spl did well enough with the right bullet and load.