Lee PrecisionRotoMetals2MidSouth Shooters SupplyWideners
Inline FabricationTitan ReloadingStainLess Steel MediaGraf & Sons

View Poll Results: Backpacking and 25 yards hunting handgun 45 ACP, 45 Super, 10mm?

Voters
181. You may not vote on this poll
Page 1 of 7 1234567 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 125

Thread: Backpacking and 25 yards hunting handgun 45 ACP, 45 Super, 10mm?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master huntersdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The Great Lakes
    Posts
    163

    Backpacking and 25 yards hunting handgun 45 ACP, 45 Super, 10mm?

    For a backpacking handgun for defense against possible black bear, and a 25-yard maximum deer Hunting handgun, would you go with the 45 ACP, 45 super or the 10mm? All ammo will be reloaded ammo.

    For reloading what bullet would you choose to fit the bill on the above calibers?

    Not interested in other calibers.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    6,000
    .45 ACP with proper load will do the job. 9 grains of Blue Dot and 250-grain cast lead flat-nose exceeds .45 Colt factory load. You can do better than a "Cowboy Bullet" there are LFNs designed for .45 ACP!

    Attachment 174936

    Big advantage is that .45 ACP ammo is common and sold everywhere, not so for your other choices.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 08-21-2016 at 11:06 AM.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Paul_R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Norcal
    Posts
    152
    I only have 45 ACP. It would do IMHO but a +P load would remove any doubt.
    "Oh bother" said Pooh as the tripwire clicked.

    I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. ― Robert A. Heinlein

    Got a jury summons? Know your rights! http://fija.org/

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Shawlerbrook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    499
    I voted 45ACP, but I would pick a 4" 357 mag. revolver.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master huntersdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The Great Lakes
    Posts
    163
    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    .45 ACP with proper load will do the job. 9 grains of Blue Dot and 250-grain cast lead flat-nose exceeds .45 Colt factory load. You can do better than a "Cowboy Bullet" there are LFNs designed for .45 ACP!

    Attachment 174936

    Big advantage is that .45 ACP ammo is common and sold everywhere, not so for your other choices.
    Thank you very much for the load and bullet suggestion.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master huntersdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The Great Lakes
    Posts
    163
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_R View Post
    I only have 45 ACP. It would do IMHO but a +P load would remove any doubt.
    I had read the advantage of some 45 ACP guns is if you fix your gun up with the little bigger recoil spring and that you can shoot 45 Super out of it, as the brass is the same size. I don't know what the reliability would be converting The Gun and shooting a 45 super out of it.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Mk42gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Butler, MO
    Posts
    6,127
    All three calibers would be suitable for the close range scenarios you list. I have not shot a .45 Super, but have lots of experience with the .45 ACP and 10mm.

    The .45 advantage is projectile weight, probably not necessary for 25 yard whitetail, and it is easier to shoot.

    The 10mm advantage is a round or two extra in the magazine, and longer range potential.

    I would pick the one you shoot best.

    Robert

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Denial
    Posts
    2,340
    230 grain flat point in the GI pressure/velocity range or slightly hotter. The LBT LFN is a great shooter, and will penetrate well enough. The 230 grain Ranch Dog tumble luber we've got a group buy going for at NOE is one I've got on the line to fill the same role without the need to size.

    Too many possibilities for KABOOM with the .45 Super for my comfort. I dabbled years ago and concluded that this sort of thing belongs in the arena of the revolver.

    10mm - good round, if logistically a bit challenging.
    WWJMBD?

    "I'M MELLLLLLLLLLTING!" - Elphaba

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,053
    1911 45 ACP with properly fitted oversized FPS, proper recoil spring shooting 230 to 265 grain bullets ahead of a safe quantity of VV N-350. For the 230 grain, not much equals the 230 grain Gold Dot - if you can find it, as a loading component.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    6,000
    Quote Originally Posted by huntersdog View Post
    Thank you very much for the load and bullet suggestion.
    Speer Manual has data for 260-grain JHP in .45 ACP which can be used as a guide:

    9 grs. Blue Dot 837 fps
    6.9 grs. Herco 847 fps
    6.4 Unique 822 fps
    5.1 Red Dot 817 fps.

    These all are standard pressure loads with jacketed, so you have some "wiggle room" to substitute a proper fitting cast bullet so as probably not to exceed +P.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    Hickok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    High mountains of WV
    Posts
    2,442
    RCBS makes a real nice 230 FP 45 caliber mold. The meplat is large. It feeds well in my Kimber.

    https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c.../044-82308.jpg
    Last edited by Hickok; 08-21-2016 at 12:42 PM.
    Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    Paul_R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Norcal
    Posts
    152
    Quote Originally Posted by huntersdog View Post
    I had read the advantage of some 45 ACP guns is if you fix your gun up with the little bigger recoil spring and that you can shoot 45 Super out of it, as the brass is the same size. I don't know what the reliability would be converting The Gun and shooting a 45 super out of it.
    There's only one way to find out. I don't know anything about 45 Super but there is plenty of load data for 45ACP+P and at least with a 1911 it just requires a recoil spring change.
    "Oh bother" said Pooh as the tripwire clicked.

    I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. ― Robert A. Heinlein

    Got a jury summons? Know your rights! http://fija.org/

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Western North Dakota
    Posts
    2,768
    .45 ACP is my go to pistol but---- for your stated purpose, and assuming brass is available, I would go 10mm with a 200 grain cast bullet driven like the early Norma round. Bullet does not need to be crazy hard and surely not hollow point. A good flat point/truncated cone that will feed 100% would be my choice. Failing that, I would use my standard 230 TC cast bullet in any of my 1911s.
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

  14. #14
    Moderator



    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Oregon Coast
    Posts
    4,043
    Having seen a moderate sized blackbear (about 250 pounds guesstimated) shot with numerous rounds of .45 acp GI Ball ammo, it wouldn't be my first choice. Most of the rounds were found not far under the skin and penetration was very little. The bear was finished off with a .357 Magnum to the center of the skull.

    The only reason the bear was shot with the .45 was the hikers were on the side of a slidehill, traversing across the face of the slide, when they came face to face with a blackbear that refused to retreat and wouldn't let them back down the very narrow trail. When they tried to back up, the bear became more aggressive for whatever reason, and they felt they had to shoot it, or fight it. The lead hiker was the one with the .45, and the trail was just wide enough for one person, so he emptied 3 magazines into the bear, with little visible effect. The second hiker was carrying a .357 Blackhawk, with 158 gr. Magnum SWC loads, and that's what finished the bear off. They peeled back the skin after the encounter to find out why the bear kept coming, and were amazed at how little penetration they got with the .45's. I came up on them at that point, and I was also amazed.

    I live in blackbear country, and have encounters with them every summer right behind our house. We can't put out the trash the night before because of them and the raccoons...... I've seen a bear killed with a 9mm, shooting 147 gr. Black Talons, but it took 4 rounds and the bear still went about 150 yards before it bled out.

    When I walk the dogs now, I carry either a .41 Magnum or a 10mm, with 200 gr. bullets loaded fairly warm. We've been trapped by a bear within 1/4 mile of our house before, and if you've never seen a large boar bear "posture" back and forth in front of you from about 20 yards, you haven't experienced how small a 9mm can feel in your hand, which is why I carry something bigger now.

    Bears can be unpredictable and move really, really fast. The more power the better, but if you don't have to shoot one, that's even better. They don't always give you the choice, though, especially one that has lost it's fear of humans.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Artful's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Valley of the SUNs, AZ
    Posts
    9,236
    The two main calibers are both good choices - I played with 45 Super years ago when Dean Grennell first introduced it to the world.

    But for the money a Glock 10mm is hard to beat for what you describe, the more ammo on tap the better and Glock's 15 rounds would be comforting. While I'm not a Glock person in this case it is my advise to you.

    The main thing is your bullet selection, on a black bear you need some penetration, Even more so if you run into something like a Hog. If you get caught up with something thinner skinned like a human or rabid dog you want expansion. I'd probably handload
    10mm .400 180 gr HP XTP

    http://www.hornady.com/store/10mm-.400-180-gr-HP-XTP/
    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    5,047
    The suggestion that the 45 ACP can barely push a nonexpanding bullet to break a black bear's skin layer is, I will suggest, quite mistaken.

    Color me unconvinced by the "story."

    Having shot a fair amount of "stuff" including deer, with a 45 ACP, I know ball ammo is not "under penetrative" on human sized 250 lb critters. The anecdote makes a nice story, but story is all I consider it to be based on what I know. Sorry, but when a "story" I cannot personally verify comes out that is so utterly opposed to what I know.....I go with what I know.

    Just how it is. My "story" is the 45 is not under penetrative with nonexpanding ammo. 250 lb bears included.
    Last edited by 35remington; 08-21-2016 at 03:19 PM.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master

    jeepyj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Maine, Just north of Bangor
    Posts
    1,044
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawlerbrook View Post
    I voted 45ACP, but I would pick a 4" 357 mag. revolver.
    ^^^^^
    i agree with this!
    Sometimes it takes a second box of boolits to clear my head.
    Feed back thread http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...?261449-jeepyj

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Artful's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Valley of the SUNs, AZ
    Posts
    9,236
    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

  19. #19
    Boolit Master KYCaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Rineyville
    Posts
    2,177
    If you're gonna go into the woods undergunned, you may as well choose the one with a reputation for reliability and longevity, rather than one with a reputation for breaking parts.

    45ACP

    Jerry
    Buzzard's luck!! Can't kill nothin', nothin'll die!!

  20. #20
    Moderator



    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Oregon Coast
    Posts
    4,043
    35remington,

    You can choose to believe my story or not, but I was there and you weren't. These were all frontal shots, and there was a definite lack of penetration.

    As to bullet performance, I've seen many, many bullets removed at autopsies during my career, and despite what they do in water jugs, ballistic gelatin, etc., they're not predictable in the body. There are too many variables to contend with, for one thing. Clothing, bone, articles in pockets, muscle, etc. are just a few.

    I worked a case where a suspect was killed with a .22 Short after knocking the **** out of his girlfriend. She shot him with what she had, which was that little pipsqueak of a gun, but he died all the same about 2 hours later. I've seen suspects shot numerous times with .38 and 9mm hollowpoints in the chest and upper torso and never loose consciousness. I've also seen one die from a full metal Jacket .32 acp bullet in the abdomen, again not an instant death, but dead all the same hours later. That's just a few that I've seen in person, but some of the bullets removed at autopsies were from cases I didn't handle, but as the former range master for our department, I was sometimes consulted by the Coroner's Office.

    Like I said, it's a free country, and you can believe what you want, but predicting what a bullet will do in uncertain circumstances isn't an exact science.....

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

Page 1 of 7 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check