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View Poll Results: Backpacking and 25 yards hunting handgun 45 ACP, 45 Super, 10mm?

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Thread: Backpacking and 25 yards hunting handgun 45 ACP, 45 Super, 10mm?

  1. #101
    Boolit Master OldBearHair's Avatar
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    Thanks Fred, You are a gentleman.

  2. #102
    Boolit Man
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    I voted 45 acp given the choices. knowingly going into bear country I would choose a 12ga with slugs or 308 or 3006 or 45-70. I have a friend that shot a 200 lb black bear that was raiding deer meat hanging on the front poarch of his cabin in a Colo. hunt. 44 mag at 3 ft in the mouth(trying to shoot down the throat) didnt penetrate but blew up in mouth. Bear bounced off a car and cabin next door and ran into woods. He found the bear later and finished it with 3006. My Marine son was home on leave and shot a 118 lb hog with 140 gr 7mm08. 140gr bullet penetrated full body length taking out heart and both lungs but hog still charged and he finished it with 22 lr pistol to the brain. It dropped instantly. He didnt shoot it again with rifle because he didnt want to destroy any more meat. Point is you have to shutdown the cns or wait for critters to bleed out and thus shut down cns or hit them so shock that the cns(central nervous system) ceases to function.

  3. #103
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHeath View Post
    The OP is set on an auto pistol. I prefer autos generally.

    But re some of the comments, revolvers allow large meplat boolits with heavy crimps. And revolvers don't have FTFs, don't stovepipe, and move right past a misfire.

    Autos limit meplat size and bullet weight, and headspacing on the case mouth can complicate crimping heavy loads or cast boolits. Heaven forbid one gets in a wrestling match with any animal, but pull the trigger on an auto when the slide nose is against something (the animal, the ground when you stumble, etc.) and out of battery, or if your jacket etc obstructs the ejection port, and you get a stoppage.

    In town I wouldn't carry a revolver, don't like the bulk and figure I can make a middling power pistol work.

    I spent 3 months in brown bear country, only saw one but it's a lonely feeling when you're out of contact and the nearest help is a long hike and 40 minute skiff ride away. I'm disinclined to play games in that situation. I would lean toward 6 of heavy .44 SWCs rather than pumping umpteen 10mms at a bear that might have just stepped out of the berry patch 6' from me, for the same reasons I would lean toward 5 rounds of .338 or even .30-06/220 over a magazine full of 7.62x39.

    But there are arguments for both sides.
    Good comments, and a good description of some of the reasons I prefer a revolver.
    But since the OP specified auto pistol, instead of discussing which revolver I am more likely to carry in bear country I will limit my comments to which autopistol I carry, when I carry an autopistol in bear country.
    I chose .45 Super. I did so because a .45 Super is basically just a .45 ACP with full case support and stronger springs. Mine is a Glock 21 with upgraded springs and a Lone Wolf 5.2" barrel. It works reliably with pretty much any full power .45 ACP ammo, as well as 255 grain flatnose cast bullets at 1100+ fps.

  4. #104
    Boolit Man

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    Glock 21 with any type of full power .45 ACP ammo for me.
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  5. #105
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    My buddy in Alaska who lives and works in bear country laughs at the notion of handguns for bear protection. Most people don't shoot them well in hot breath confrontations when your balance is upset by the rapid deposit of 2kg of feces and a pint of urine in your bibs. Their work crews keep watch with a 12-ga. shotgun loaded with 00 buck, but he said that the last two bear attacks were thwarted by loggers usjng a Stil 24" woodboss and a double-bitted axe!
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  6. #106
    Boolit Master
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    Since my last posting within this thread, Marie and I had another Close Encounter Of The Furred Kind--a cougar this time, in the desert east of Indio and south of I-10. It was nice enough to depart post haste, so no hostilities commenced. It still got our hearts started up right well, though. The Glock 20SF remained holstered (but got unsnapped), and my rebored Win 94 in 38/55 M&B was within a few feet.

    Since my carry options got expanded almost 2 years ago, the Glock 23 has become my "city/CCW gun" and the Glock 20 is now my "country pistol". 30+ years with the 10mm Auto has impressed me with its performance, accuracy, and power. I really like the caliber--a lot.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  7. #107
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    I am a huge 45 ACP fan, but if I were to trek into bear country with only a semi auto handgun for protection it would be a Big Rock 10mm and a spare 16 round mag.
    Mtgrs737
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  8. #108
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    I'm sure everyone has heard by now of the mountain bikers who were attacked by a cougar in Washington State over the weekend. One was killed, and one was badly mauled. When the police arrived, the cougar ran off into the woods, and they were able to track it and shoot it. The riders had seen the cougar and thought they had scared it away, but when they rode on, it attacked them from behind, which is the way a cougar attacks a victim, whether it's four legged or two legged.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/19...-was-shot.html

    Living in cougar and bear country has shown me over the years that wild animals are unpredictable, just like people. Whenever my wife and I leave the house, we carry a gun. We've had cougars pass through our yard on occasion, and have bears within yards of the house much too often.

    Be careful out there...........

    Fred
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  9. #109
    Boolit Master
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    Yessir--there's bears in the woods, snakes in the grass--and cougars in the desert. A first for me, but since burro mule deer live there--I suppose cougars will follow to feed upon them.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  10. #110
    Boolit Master robertbank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    Yessir--there's bears in the woods, snakes in the grass--and cougars in the desert. A first for me, but since burro mule deer live there--I suppose cougars will follow to feed upon them.
    Yessir and humans are just slow Burros. Easier to catch and just as tasty, I am told. LOL

    Take Care

    Bob
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=#ff0000]Je suis Charlie

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  11. #111
    Boolit Bub
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    I have 3 45 acps that have been set up with mild modifications that allow calibers changes. Two of them are set up to be able to go from 45 acp to 10mm by switching the slide, barrel, and mag.
    I consider the 10mm overly powerful for general SD work, but for hunting and/or backwoods SD, it is just fine. 10mm would make a perfectly adequate deer round out to 50 yds, if I do my part. A much better choice, IMHO, than the 45 acp.

  12. #112
    Boolit Master
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    I am a 10mm fan boy and not afraid to admit it. But given a choice give me a Mossberg Shockwave in bear Country loaded with flight control Federal buckshot. Not having that choice though I prefer the 10mm 6" loaded with 200 Grain hard cast WFN. I did recent tests from my Glock model 40 and Remington R1 and got over 20" of straight line penetration in water soaked news print. It was far better than the 16" with a 45 ACP. 45 is no slouch either and has fantastic track record for stopping power. So thinking either would do the job so long as the shooter has the training and nerves to put rounds on target in a high stress situation.
    Last edited by Ramjet-SS; 07-06-2018 at 09:52 PM.

  13. #113
    Boolit Master
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    I chose 45 ACP but usually in the woods I carry a 44 Mag revolver, because it'll hit harder than 230 Gr. TC boolits. I have set up the occasional large meplat round for the first round in the chamber for the 45; Just not doing it lately. And of course it's less stress to NOT have an incident.

    My experience with the 1911 family is that, properly set up, and fed the right ammo, they're VERY reliable; If I feed mine 185 grain SWCers it will likely get the occasional FTF, because that's not what it's set up for. I'm a big guy so the recoil on a 45 isn't much (Also, you can teach a tiny gal how to shoot a 1911, holding it in their hand with just their thumb on the enlarged safety, and with just their trigger finger on the trigger - The weapon'll buck some as they're not holding it in their hand, but not buck out of their hand. I want to find some nice tiny gal to demonstrate that with and videotape it, it looks albit different if I do it with my Yeti size hand!)

    I don't have a 45 Super or 10mm; If I did I might have marked one of those down. But, so far, I just use 1911 for city and 44 for outdoors, or carry a 12 Gauge for outdoors. You DO want to practice getting a long gun into play quickly, same as you practice draws for Self Defense, it's just YOUR life you'll be saving by practicing, so if you choose not to, it's your choice.

  14. #114
    Boolit Master
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    [QUOTE=35remington;3751821]The suggestion that the 45 ACP can barely push a nonexpanding bullet to break a black bear's skin layer is, I will suggest, quite mistaken.

    He didn’t say the .45 barely penetrated the skin, just that they were all amazed at how poorly it penetrated.

  15. #115
    Boolit Master robertbank's Avatar
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    Driving over to Ft. McMurray from Terrace drove by 9 bears feeding for berries along the highways. 3 sows with two cubs each and 3 boars. All were timid and moved into the bush as we drove by at 100Km per. Unless you threaten the cubs mommas just want to get along with their lives. If any of you ever come up this way PLEASE do not stop for pics or feed the bears. If you do, you have effectively signed the bears death warrant as they become accustomed to humans which usually ends bad for both.

    Take Care

    Bob
    Last edited by robertbank; 08-04-2018 at 05:27 PM.
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=#ff0000]Je suis Charlie

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  16. #116
    Boolit Master
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    I haven’t seen a live bear outside of a zoo, but have considerable experience in feral hog country and handgun hunting deer.

    If I wanted to drop a deer humanely, be protected from bears, or kill hogs (which are vermin in my neck of the woods), there’d be a big (.40 cal and up) magnum revolver on my hip, probably a .44 loaded with LBT 280 WFNs pushed to 1,000 FPS.

    Yes, someone’s buddy dropped a grizzly with a .40 S&W, some folks regularly kill deer with their .45 ACP. In 1953, an Indian woman killed the world record grizzly with a .22 long.

    Likely more bears have been killed with spears and arrows than all handgun calibers combined.

    That doesn’t make any of them ideal (actually, no handgun is.)

    Out of your list, I’d opt for the 10mm.

    Capacity beyond five rounds is meaning less. If you need 15 rounds to drop a deer, you shouldn’t be hunting with a handgun.

    IMO, it is highly unlikely a bear is going to wait around while you put 10+ rounds in to him (I can testify a hog won’t.)

    The far more likely scenario with a POed bear at close range is you’ll get two, three shots at most (Howdah pistol, anyone?). If, after six rounds, the bear and I are still standing, I’ll carry on the battle from atop the nearest tree.

    Yes I read the anecdote about the bear taking all those .45 rounds, but that only further illustrates that more gun, not more boolits, were needed.

  17. #117
    Boolit Master

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    in the deep woods, always a revolver, never semi-auto, .357mag minimum, w/speed loaders handy.

  18. #118
    Boolit Master
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    I've had similar reliability with my 1911; Only owned the current one for 40 years. Borrowed my dad's before that. Friends' 9mm once jammed as he had some odd brass (I can't remember the headstamp) with a weird SHARP serrated outside rim (I have NO idea how he found such crummy brass! I'd have thrown it or ground off the serrations; we are talking a quality of 0.2 on a scale of 1 to 10 LOL) - It would catch in his firing pin hole, so he bubbaed it with a dremel to put a fillet in the top of the hole, so it wouldn't catch... That ammo would jam anything but a Contender, is my guess.

    If you use bad enough ammo - You can make ANY firearm have a bad day. That's not the firearm's fault, IMO.

    And I know - the 45 ACP isn't super powerful; It IS powerful enough for man-size targets. Not really enough for fast stops on a huge bear or the like, and there ARE a few Griz in WA state. It sure wouldn't improve a Grizzly's day though... Nor would a .22 LR. Just wouldn't stop it in its tracks DRT. I use a .44 Rem Mag in the woods, but if I come up against a serious threat like a Griz I don't expect a speed loader to be much help due to their speed; If it's a 2-legged threat though, one might need that. 50 rounds or so's probably enough though?

  19. #119
    Boolit Master

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    I chose the .45 ACP because I own a S&W 325 Airlite that weighs 20.5 ounces and can load it up to the point where auto's self destruct.
    If God didn't want man to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of MEAT!

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  20. #120
    Boolit Master
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    Jtarm, he did in fact say the GI Ball went “not far past the skin.” In addition, we are to believe that the bear merely stood around while “three magazines” of 45 ACP ball were emptied into it. Shoot to slide lock, fish out a new magazine, shoot to slidelock, fish out another magazine, shoot to slidelock. That’s at least 21 rounds.

    The story doesn’t pass the “smell test.” I suspect that someone did not let the “story” suffer for likely detail.

    Sorry. Ain’t buying that. Black bear are not armor plated. The ACP is not my idea of a bear round but the suggestion that it cannot drive a nonexoanding bullet deep enough to reach a black bear’s vitals is incorrect.
    Last edited by 35remington; 08-06-2018 at 05:18 PM.

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