380 shot shells

[Campocaster]

Not sure what was rattling around in my head, should read "off the mouth", then the "where the bottle neck is" part will make sense.

Yes, the case will headspace now at the end of the bottleneck, so when you make the bottleneck with the 32ACP die if you create too long a bottleneck, the headspace will be off. What I meant really by 'specific gun' is use the barrel of the gun you are making the shot shells for and check the headspace of the case before going forward. If there is too much headspace you could have dangerous pressure, but more likely the issue is the round will not fire because excess headspace, it will miss the primer or be a weak primer hit. Also, make sure the length is not too long for the magazine.

Before you load up live rounds, I would make dummy rounds and get them to cycle. Also making dummy rounds will be good practice as getting the headspace right by the time you crimp can be tricky at first.

Heres what I do -

Cut .223 brass down to size - try longer at .950 to start and you can trim and crimp to size - cut too short an its scrap brass

Run cut 223 brass through 380 full size die

Chamfer the inside case mouth well, and lube the mouth

Create bottleneck with 32acp die - go slow and if you get resistance turn the case and apply pressure

Check for headspace fit and mag fit - get it right

Add powder charge

Use a scrap 223 brass and sharpen mouth with trimmer to make card punch for over powder and over shot cards

Make cards from light cardboard or plastic such as a birthday card or plastic notebook covers

Insert a tight fitting over powder card into the case

Use a dowel to carefully get the card even and level over the powder and get it over the powder firmly and tight fitting

Load shot almost to top

Place over shot card

Crimp with 45acp bullet seating die

This is all experimental, and I'm working these ideas from scaling down successful 45acp shot shell as the model.The basic OAL that cycled in my Kahr CT380 were .911 through .945. Too long for the magazine was .973. I will eventually narrow this range down quite a bit, but again still experimenting. You have to use your gun and your mags, to get reliable cycling. Just like certain guns dont like certain factory ammo yet other ammo is great - the same concept will apply here. When you crimp, try to get the mouth perfectly rounded and not squared even a little as that will effect cycling. I'm not listing any specific loads, but I would look up info on 45ACP shotshell. Many publications published and use 6 grains of W231, so use that as reference and scale down the load. I would be interested in anyone who is doing this and what their methods and results are -

[jmorris]

What I meant really by 'specific gun' is use the barrel of the gun you are making the shot shells for and check the headspace of the case before going forward.

I used a casegauge and tried them in several different 380's. If I have a firearm that is out of spec. I fix it vs load special ammunition for it. Same thing for all of the bottleneck rounds I load.

Heres what I do -

Cut .223 brass down to size...

Add powder charge
...
Insert a tight fitting over powder card into the case

Use a dowel to carefully get the card even and level over the powder and get it over the powder firmly and tight fitting

Load shot almost to top

What powder, charge and shot size are you using?

[Campocaster]

Using a case gauge is fine too but if you dont have one you can use the barrel. I agree with what you say about fixing a firearm out of spec, but I'm not talking about a firearm out of spec - you are basically making a wildcat cartridge so when making these, you can make the headspace correct - or incorrect in how long you make the bottleneck on the case. They say "every gun is a law unto itself" - meaning there are manufacturing tolerances that come into play to account for as well. Thats why I mentioned using the barrel of your gun so to get it more exacting. Make sure to use lead shot and not steel. I use #9 shot and W231. I'm not posting a powder charge

[Campocaster]

I used a casegauge and tried them in several different 380's. If I have a firearm that is out of spec. I fix it vs load special ammunition for it. Same thing for all of the bottleneck rounds I load.
What powder, charge and shot size are you using?

jmorris, your methods of making these cases with a lathe are quite impressive. It is much more skill based and involved than what I'm doing, and I also dont have a lathe. I got on the idea from making 45 Shot shells. I was reading a .380 is not a smaller 9mm case, but a scaled down (78%) 45ACP case. So with that info I came up with what I'm doing. I'm still in experimental stages and thats why I dont have a definitive OAL or powder charges. I applaud your method but I dont have the tools or skill with a lathe to do what your doing.

[jmorris]

The turned cases were just to get me going and make sure I could get them to cycle in various 380's. I then modified an extra Lee powder through die I had sitting around to swage them down.

See post 25.

[jmorris]

Can you post a pic of spent cases?

I made some more today and had a chance to take a photo of a fired case.

Left to right, loaded converted case, converted case prior to crimp and fired case.

[Campocaster]

I made some more today and had a chance to take a photo of a fired case.

Left to right, loaded converted case, converted case prior to crimp and fired case.

Hey jmorris those really look great! Can you post some of your details on making the cases, case lengths, powder ect? Are you getting 100% cycling? You should make a youtube vid as no one else has one... you'd be the trailblazer!

[Campocaster]

The turned cases were just to get me going and make sure I could get them to cycle in various 380's. I then modified an extra Lee powder through die I had sitting around to swage them down.

See post 25.

So what did you do to modify the die? I've been using a 32ACP die to make the bottlenecks, but if a powder through die gets better results I'd go with that

[jmorris]

If you have looked at my videos, you might have noticed they are all unedited and right to the point (short). This is because I live out in the sticks and the only internet I have is cellular. So a step by step video would be more difficult for me. Photos are easy though.

First thing is to take a .223 case and install into the little jig I made to cut cases to length. Lock them in place and rough cut them so there isn't that much protruding (you don't want to mess up the face of the fixture either). I then touch them to a disk sander back to the face of the fixture (brass won't spark and is easy to remove, your done if you see a spark) these are not 1000 yard benchrest loads, so this works fine and is fast. Now chamfer inside and out then lube for the next step.

Never mind the turned case that's how I did the very first ones.


For forming I had a hunk of bar stock the correct OD to fit into the Lee powder through expander die (original Lee insert on right) so I drilled/reamed it to .346 ID added a decent chamfer and polished. I used nickel Winchester .223 brass because it is more resistant to scratching that regular polished brass and won't get ugly if they sit around a few years before being needed. The neck of a formed case measures .348" and after firing they are .351". The washers just take up the slop as the insert I made is shorter than the cavity in the Lee die.



Then punch out the over/under shot cards like this.

These are my 45 rounds but it's the same method, a punch and plastic. I also stand a short section of 2x4 up vertically so I am punching into the grain not into the side (wood is "stronger" this way and it makes for better cuts on plastics that tend to smear, like the clear stuff I ended up using).



Then prime, I used old "white box" Winchester SRP because they matched the cases (nickle) and that's what was sitting on the bench at the time.

I ran up and down on the powder charge a bit before settling on 2.4 grains of N310, it was the smallest charge weight that would run 100% in the different 380's I have (I went up to 3.2 so I think it's safe but I have no lab equipment and am barely responsible for my actions so I won't assume any responsibility/liability for yours, so you might want to start low and work up for function).

Then place the under shot card in and push it down over the powder, inverted the case over my hand to make sure no powder spilled out and called it good.

Then I added #12 shot to just shy of the rim (around 61.6 grains) and placed the over shot card on. The over shot card needs to be like the one in the middle of the photo below so it's low enough to get under the rim as its rolled over.



I used a regular 45 ACP RN bullet seat die to form the crimp.

On the 45 ACP shot dies I made I went to a little more effort and machined a crimp die that had a central mandrel that would push down the over shot card as it crimped. It's a lot more fun to load with if you don't mind the extra work.

[Abert Rim]

Bumping this old thread. jmorris, you did a fine job. Anyone have any further thoughts on shot loads for .380s? Alternatives to N310? Red Dot, Bullseye?

[Charlie Horse]

Wow. This thread really makes me wish I had a lathe. I have no use for shot loads but they would be too much fun to not make some.

[jmorris]

Hard to believe its been that long ago already...

From an LCP

[jmorris]

and a PPK