British Smallbore Rifles.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I see someone on eBay UK regularly sells the brochure with sectional diagram, parts list and maintenance instructions which originally accompanied the MkII. I got one for £0.99, though they may go higher sometimes. Unfortunately my sole infraction on this board was for showing people an eBay auction - all very courteous, with an explanation that they knew I meant no harm (or, I suppose, profit). But it is easily findable.

I don't doubt there have been developments in target rimfires in the last fifty years which bring a very slight edge to a tiny minority of top-class target shots. The 12/15 and earlier, perhaps not, but they easily equal 99 of the rimfires sold new. I think I know one current .22 which is a classic case of advertising revenue bringing editorial mentions, editorial mentions bringing popularity, popularity bringing after-market mods and accessories, and mods and accessories bringing... pretty much what lucky amulets used to.

[saleen322]

I have two international MKIIs. This one was rebarreled by Eric Johnson, supposedly one of the last ones he did. It is a tack driver.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Local gunshow today I purchased a BSA 15 complete with all front and rear sights and the little thumbnail attachment with 5 interchangeable elements (needs a reblue) but at $AU200, I could not let it go to a unappreciative home!

[dromia]

Don't forget the small bore Vickers Martini actioned target rifles, as accurate as the contemporary BSAs

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Don't forget the small bore Vickers Martini actioned target rifles, as accurate as the contemporary BSAs

They can be, although the Martini[Jnternational isn't their contemporary. In fact in there there lurks just about the same action. But I believe the action takedown screw is also a stock attachment screw, and that seems like a source of inconsistent bedding.

[dromia]

The Vickers were only made during the inter war years, no one said they were contemporary with the Internationals.

They certainly seemed to hold their own in competitions of the time and were a match for the BSAs regardless of the "flaws" that some attribute to them. Another thing that was supposed to make them "less" than the BSAs was the receiver and barrel being one piece but as always in shooting there is the theory and then there are the results on the target.

I have dozen or so Vickers in my collection and they certainly give up nothing to the BSAs of the time when I shot them both competitively.

[knewmans]

They are certainly much more accurate than I am. My MkV International has the original factory test group of 0.56" at 100 yds.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Just the same, although people may be right in saying the .22LR has had more development work than any other cartridge, this shows how those who say it is the most accurate are mistaken. I don't think we would be happy with .59in. at 100 from a heavy centrefire target rifle of similar sophistication. Factory centrefire ammunition makers have improved a lot through being prodded on by the work of the private benchresters. But I don't think the best .22LR target ammunition has improved much since the 1960s.

[robg]

Shot one in our club a lh mk11 I think ,as a lefty it was a joy to shoot in our tunnel ,accurate to 150 yards ,didn't try at 200 .want one ,always loved the action.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I had a BSA small bore barreled by Eric Johnson for Al Freeland. It was one of Johnson's five star barrels It had Vaver sights front and back but it had a left hand stock and I don't shoot from that side. A friend of mine just had to have it so I let it go. He took the rifle, jumped into his truck and took off for Victorville where he sold the rifle for a nice profit to a fellow who right away sold it to someone else. I am sure he made a profit also. I do have a BSA INTL MATCH which I seldom shoot because it is so heavy.

[1066]

Just the same, although people may be right in saying the .22LR has had more development work than any other cartridge, this shows how those who say it is the most accurate are mistaken. I don't think we would be happy with .59in. at 100 from a heavy centrefire target rifle of similar sophistication. Factory centrefire ammunition makers have improved a lot through being prodded on by the work of the private benchresters. But I don't think the best .22LR target ammunition has improved much since the 1960s.

I quite agree there. The sole result of the last fifty years from the Eley R&D department seems to have been to clip 1/8th inch off the tip of the bullet. It might be fashionable but I can't see it has had any measurable effect on accuracy.

[UKShootist]

I quite agree there. The sole result of the last fifty years from the Eley R&D department seems to have been to clip 1/8th inch off the tip of the bullet. It might be fashionable but I can't see it has had any measurable effect on accuracy.

Well, that might depend upon the shooter. But the flat tipped target rounds, Tenex, and similar are certainly more accurate at longer range. They also impact most effectively on rabbits, albeit they are a touch pricey for regular bunny bashing. Bench rest accuracy can depend upon the rifle. Another club member finds RWS R50 better in his custom bench rest rifle. My Martinis all prefer the Eley Tenex, as does, surprisingly, my old CZ style.

[saleen322]

I had a BSA small bore barreled by Eric Johnson for Al Freeland. It was one of Johnson's five star barrels It had Vaver sights front and back but it had a left hand stock and I don't shoot from that side. A friend of mine just had to have it so I let it go. He took the rifle, jumped into his truck and took off for Victorville where he sold the rifle for a nice profit to a fellow who right away sold it to someone else. I am sure he made a profit also. I do have a BSA INTL MATCH which I seldom shoot because it is so heavy.

I currently have 2 rifles with Johnson barrels, both of them are 5-star. They are getting more and more difficult to find.

[dromia]

The development comparison is a bit like apples and oranges as the centerfire rounds have a plethora of handloaders experimenting and developing loads, components and techniques which has been fed back into and absorbed by the industry. The humble rimfire however is limited to the what the industry develops and what the market is happy with. Without handloaders pushing the accuracy envelope and showing what is possible then the rimfire will always be at a disadvantage development and expectation wise.

[1066]

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. After a hundred years of development I think the .22lr reached it's accuracy peak about thirty years ago. If there has been any significant accuracy improvements I feel this is more to do with the use of barrel tuners etc.

I think if you were to shoot a good BSA International from a fixed rest at 100 yards with batch tested Tenex made 30 years ago and current manufacture, there would be very little difference. (Apart from the price)

[Bad Ass Wallace]

PTA came through so I picked up my $200 BSA 12/15 that I bought at the Toowoomba gunshow. The barrel & action has been extensivily rusted at some stage and it was described as "FAIR" condition.


Took it down the range today and put a few groups of CCI standard pistol ammunition through it and was suprised that most 5 shot groups could be covered by a $1 coin; this is about as good as I can shoot at 50m with open sights!


Another keeper!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

That particular sight, although clumsy-looking on such a dainty action and requiring a specially milled receiver, is surely the best for iron-sighted target shooting on the Martini-shaped Martinis. I've managed to find a supply of belts down to 600 grit for my hand-held belt sander, and that would do a good job on the action sides if you care to reblue it.

I always think it is a pity the inside-lubed .22 Winchester Rimfire, like a short version of the .22WRM, didn't become the standard .22. It didn't achieve the accuracy of the .22LR, but with as much development work I think it could have become better.

The world would be a poorer place without the eccentrics who load the .22LR, trephine holes in their own skulls under local anaesthetic, etc. But as long as a single shot rifle is involved, I think they would do better with the .22LR uncrimped, as it was made by Stevens for its first few years.

[enfield]

I hear those Australian $1 coins are REEEEEAAALY BIG though.

[samari46]

I've only seen one International for sale and exactly 3 22rf small actioned martini for sale in the flesh. I have two, one is a 12/15 and the other is a Canadian marked one that I finally got all the lead out of the barrel. Have a BSA target buttstock that I need to fit and a stevens forend for the barrel. The stevens forend is wide and fits the Canadian marked 22 almost as if it were made for it. Frank

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I hear those Australian $1 coins are REEEEEAAALY BIG though.

Big enough to fit 5 kangaroos upon!