Blackpowder & 243, 308, 223, 30-30 case capacity, velocity is it working?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Don't worry about the proportions; 75:15:10 is just about right and deviating a bit makes little difference. I would start with the charcoal. Make it yourself in a retort (metal paint can works fine) of fast-growing wood. Not hardwood. Strip the bark off before you make the charcoal.

Ball mill all ingredients together dry, until you have a fine powder like flour. Then press it with a (very) little moisture in a hydraulic press. It should end up as a hard puck. Break that up and then try it. Pressing improves the burning speed.
Again, read the black powder making thread I linked. All this information is in there, including how to optimize your ball mill and what kind of media to use in it.

And the number one recommendation I can make is this: don't listen to purveyors of misinformation (on this forum and elsewhere, on and off the web) who haven't done it and therefore don't know what they are talking about.

This, down to the last paragraph, is good advice. I haven't made my own gunpowder, since schooldays in the 1960s anyway, but without speaking of this thread in particular, I sometimes feel I am not alone.

The main key to successful powdermaking is very, very fine powder for all the constituents - finer than you can buy them. I don't believe there is any risk of ignition if you ball-mill them very thoroughly while dry before mixing, although I suppose there is a slim possibility that that could happen with static electricity and airfloat charcoal, as sometimes happens in flour mills. I once worked in a Saudi university where the science department was stopped from showing students how to make the dreaded flour bomb in a cardboard box, so we are talking nothing like a gunpowder explosion here. I think a grounded copper wire trailing on the outside of a plastic mill drum would eliminate any such possibility.

Then lengthy milling after mixing the ingredients is required. This used to be done while slightly damp, but not so moist as to prevent the possibility of a very fierce ignition. I believe this was much reduced by the introduction of concave iron troughs in edge runner mills, rather than rollers, reducing the tendency for any to dry out on the edge of the floor, and the need for a human attendant to be around much of the time, shoving it back again.

The advantages of making the mixture into a soft paste were obvious, and yet good powder couldn't be made that way. It doesn't matter how wet you get the charcoal and sulphur, as they are insoluble in water. But if you dissolve part of your painstakingly milled saltpetre, it crystallises into much larger crystals when it dries out.

I believe the main purpose of that much slighter moistening (besides reducing flammability) was that it was just enough to coat each charcoal and sulphur particle with saltpetre. This is what binds the cake into a solid under pressure, ready to be broken into grains, rather than just fall apart again.

What I have not heard of being done, but find an interesting possibility, would be to use steam to produce that very slight moistening of the mixed powder. This picture is a derelict powder mill near my home. Note the flimsy roof and front wall, to be blown out without major damage if ignition did occur.

Attachment 175053

[AJG]

i do not know. bp seems not to work for me (it may be me).

I will try to bring smokeless gun powder packaged in 12 ga shotshells. I contacted already Alliant Powders but they did not get back to me (I asked them if they can package 8 lbs Red Dot in 12 ga shothells, fill them completely, in order to be able to be shipped).
Thanks again Ballistics of Scottland for than idea and Information!

[victorfox]

AJG, can you import fireworks (cohetes etc) directly? If so, maybe you could get some filled with smokeless, I don't know, it's just another idea.

However, I just checked our Postal service, and fireworks aren't allowed to send/receive, it would probably the same in your place.

[AJG]

yes cohetes are plenty availlable here. Made in Brazil.
The Thing is one cohete (firecracker) costs me as Much as would be the equivalent in grain of the powder scavenged from 12 ga shotshells for reloading.

Example: 1 firecracker costs 1000 Pesetas (imaginable currency to hyde my location). From one firecracker I get 1 reload of metallic let us say9mm Luger or 357 Magnum and on top of that it is lesser Quality of powder (BP vs smokeless powder) and is prone to rust. I do not know how many grains of Black Powder one firecracker has but let us asume it gets just one reload. one reload costs me like this 1000 Pesetas.
On the other Hand a shotshell (12 ga) costs about 3000 Pesetas and from that I get 5 reloads of Quality smokeless powder. So one reload costs me like this 500 Pesetas and you get Quality powder and on top lead for free.

It is more economical for me scavenge 12 ga shotshells for powder and lead instead of dealing with scavenging firecrackers for Black Powder.

[victorfox]

No, you didn't get it. I was thinking if you could receive "cooked" fireworks, loaded with smokeless, for the sole purpose of receiving it in your place, if the ammo thing failed.

[AJG]

Ok, I understand.

yes I believe so.
You mean fill 'em full of smokeless powder and ship 'em to my place.

All of this is allways Trial and Error. I do not believe I could order it from abroad. But I have no idea.

How much reales is an Pound (lbs) of CBC smokeless powder there in Brazil?

[victorfox]

Yes, take all the bombs, powder, whatever is inside, fill with smokeless, close again and send.

Almost a pound (400 grams) would be about R$ 240 (about US$ 80), but as I told you, our postal service won't accept sending either black or smokeless, neither ammo or fireworks, sadly.

[perotter]

.....
I think a grounded copper wire trailing on the outside of a plastic mill drum would eliminate any such possibility.

.........

to coat each charcoal and sulphur particle with saltpetre.

........

What I have not heard of being done, but find an interesting possibility, would be to use steam to produce that very slight moistening of the mixed powder. ........

Just a couple of points.

Given the amounts BP that members here make it likely isn't of great matter of safety nor what you suggest likely going to be a potential problem, but one needs to be a little careful about having copper around making BP. With a moist mix over time one can end up having a primary explosive. Many experts think that is what caused the explosions of the old BP mills. They say that the primary created wasn't known back then. Merely a word of caution.

As for the coating, to add a bit of detail for those who a very new to making powder the inside particles of the charcoal are being coated also.

FWIW. About using steam, the state of the art 1860's BP plant that was in the CSA used steam. If memory serves, the entire mixing process was done under steam pressure. It's claimed that this was the best powder that the CSA had. I don't know how moist the mix was.

[AJG]

I understand the CSA (Confederated States of America) had a hard time to even make Black Powder (gather the ingredients for BP). As I read they scratched bird ****s in several Caves in Maryland, Virginia, Carolinas in order to get Saltpeter. Although it seems they never had a shortage of Black Powder as I now as did the Germans did in WW2 with fuel (they never had a sufficient supply of fuel) as did the Japanese (Pearl Harbor was accomplished while they had sufficient fuel and they wanted to destroy the US Navy before they run out of fuel).
Without These bird **** Caves the secession would not even had be able to start. I wonder were the CSA would have had such an state of the art BP plant since they almost did not have industries except Cotton gins.

2 of my molds have arrived. It seems like an wonder. National gun agency let it Import and I hope the other molds (9mm Luger and 38 spl) are arriving as well soon. Customs put an hefty Charge on it about the double of the Price so each mold costing in the US about 45 US$ costs here then 100 US$ (shipping and handling included. That is the endprice). Not that all bad.
I believe the 2 molds what arrived are the Lee #4 buckshot mold and the Lee 7/8 oz slug mold. At least with this I can fully modify my shotgun loads (birdshot is transformed into Buck&Ball, Buckshot or slug in a cheap way). That saves about 50% of the cost of an Buckshot vs birdshot.

[perotter]

.....
I wonder were the CSA would have had such an state of the art BP plant since they almost did not have industries except Cotton gins.......

I think it was in Augusta GA. Unsurprisingly there is a thread here about CSA powder.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...e-Powder-Works

[Malamute]

The 30-30 may work out for longer range black powder cartridge shooting, though you may need to wipe the barrel more than other calibers. If you could get a 38-55 it may help with black powder cartridge shooting. The actions on 94 Winchesters are basically interchangeable between 30-30 and 38-55, a proper barrel is the main requirement if you cant find a gun already configured the way you want.

I don't believe the 45-70 is the best of the older calibers for your purposes, the old 40 calibers of the Sharps rifles seem to do very well. In similar bullet weights, a 40 cal used about half the sight elevation as a 45-70 for 1000 yard shooting according to the user. That would be in single shot guns. The larger caliber black powder repeaters like the 1886 Winchester didn't have as much leeway for extra long cartridges or bullets (though definitely more room than the modern Marlin 1895, being based on their 30-30 action). The 40 cals originally made in the 1886 weren't designed for longer distance shooting, though it may be possible to adapt one of the 40 cals for that purpose.

I agree you may want to reconsider your distance ideas. Having known distance markers, like your fence, and other markers as someone mentioned, would help with first round hits if you have sighted in with various sight settings in practice at those distances/range markers. 500 yards isn't outrageous, but isn't exactly easy to get consistent results either.

Whit Spurzon shoots at distance with various old cartridges. Hes got a few videos on youtube of shooting at distance.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...with-the-38-55

Best of luck with the powder issues, and in your shooting. Too bad ammunition is so expensive and controlled where you are.

I'm curious what is the issue is that requires adjustable stocks? Most of us get by with whats on the gun as made, or cutting them down or adding a pad for length as needed. Mostly they are close enough to work with. Having the requirement of an adjustable stock seems to limit the choices in guns, and the Mossberg wouldn't be on any of my lists for a rifle of known quality or reliability in any event. Parts and barrels are not likely to be very easily available.

[AJG]

I Need adjustable stock since my Trigger reach is about 10" so the Minimum of an Standard adjustable stock is rigth for me.

Even if ammo would be cheap here I prefer making my own ammo (reloading). New spanish 12 ga 1oz bird shot loads are about 0.5 US$ per round and that is ok for Scavenging shotshells for reloading.

Today I shot my homemade BP again with the Lee 7/8 oz drive key slug and it goes off but at 7 meters it makes at most a dent in an 0.5" soft Wood and 22lr like recoil which tells me there is no energy in the Black Powder (I filled the 12 ga shotshell right up full). With the 12 ga be that inexpensive I might just scavenge shotshells for powder and lead.

[Tracy]

Are you using the primers too? During the height of the ammo crunch I scavenged some cheap 12 gauge shells (which never became difficult to find, unlike most everything else) as an experiment. I saved the shot, used the powder in .38 Special and pushed out the primers to use in my H&R Huntsman .45 caliber muzzleloader. It is possible to drill out 7.62 x 54R (and probably other) rifle cases to accept shotgun primers if you keep pressures relatively low.

[AJG]

Tracy,

You have done during ammo shortage basically what I do for normal reloading: Scavenging 12 ga shotshells for powder and lead (leaving the wad, primer and hull untouched for later use).

That works not as bad is just one step more (pulling the shotshell apart).
The shotshell primers I leave untouched, stuff back the wad and the cut off crimp and store those empty hulls in it's original box for hopefully later use. Once I can have abundant smokeless powder or make sucessfull my Black Powder I am able to use those emptied shotshells for slugs. or may give them away to my workers who hunt with slugs wild small wild swine (pecari) and other deer like animals (example: capybara (Hydrochoerus hydrochaeris) which are here living wild).
Drilling and mnipulating live ammo or modifying the primer part of an metallic cartridge I do not want for safety reasons. Nor would I want to take out the live 209 shotshell primers since on of the WSP I bent a Little and it never got off (did not fire).

[AJG]

I am just glad I got my Lee 124 grain TC tumble lube 9mm Luger mold and the 7/8 oz Lee drive key slug since it is that much cheaper to shoot. I will have to make about 2500 bullets to pay for my reloading Equipment but like this I shoot way more as I used to. More molds are on the way but are quiet expensive since each one arrives her (all costs including) for about 125 US$.
Leading I can not detect more than normal. There is not lead coming out at all from the pistol or Revolver Barrel even I scrape it with an brass brush. Looks like the Texaco Marfak Lithium grease I use is working well for bullet lube. It is messy but as that I do not Need to "cook" anything and wasting time like that.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

i do not know. bp seems not to work for me (it may be me).

I will try to bring smokeless gun powder packaged in 12 ga shotshells. I contacted already Alliant Powders but they did not get back to me (I asked them if they can package 8 lbs Red Dot in 12 ga shothells, fill them completely, in order to be able to be shipped).
Thanks again Ballistics of Scottland for than idea and Information!

I don't think you would get any overseas company to participate in what amounts to smuggling, nor any private individual who isn't suffering severe mental impairment. There is a big difference in getting caught mistaking the rules, and getting caught in a deliberate deception.

[AJG]

I am not advocating smuggling. Smuggling is not an Option.

But law loopholes yes.
At least my FFL us based dealer told me gun powder is alowed locally but nobody wants to ship it.
Fully charged shotshells with powder may pass as ammunition. And ammo they will ship.

[mcdaniel.mac]

I'm not your supervisor, but it might be worth noting that it's not whether or not you consider it smuggling, but whether the regulating agencies do, and whether the companies you're asking to participate do.

[AJG]

Yes I agree.

That is however different from Country to Country.

In Southamerica the law is interpreted fairly relaxy.
It is a question of "Yes or No" from the shipping companies. At least FFL dealer registred in the US as well as here were I am located tell me the only issue is shipping. So they should know it. Normallt the FFL dealer is responding to the national gun agency and receives instructions directly from the governement so it is eighter yes or no.

[Ianagos]

I read the first page and saw some agree with activated charcoal but as far as I know and people who have tried it you will not get an acceptable black powder try a willow charcoal for best results.