I love my 44 BB I taken a doe at 220 yards with a 300 gr bullet I would not call it a short range gun. Not my reg hunting rifle just one of my goals to take a deer with every rifle shotgun and pistol that is legal to hunt with.
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I love my 44 BB I taken a doe at 220 yards with a 300 gr bullet I would not call it a short range gun. Not my reg hunting rifle just one of my goals to take a deer with every rifle shotgun and pistol that is legal to hunt with.
Reloading to save money I am sure the saving is going to start soon
Pure adulterated luck. God have mercy, I would love to see to see a group at 220 yards.
But I pace a 3' pace but friends can make 100 yards into 300 easy. Did you laser it? Did you walk up and down slopes?
A deer at that range is a pencil dot with opens. It is the period here..... I need a scope for that.
Do I believe you? NO.
Well you know your limits I can respect that you know your shoot skills I understand that. What you do not know is others skills or abilities but since your unable to do something everyone else are unable to do it.
If you were Elmer Keith you may believe me since his skill levels are way above mine but with your thinking he is not to be believed. You want see a group go shoot one because is someone posted a group and stated they shot it with a BB iron sights at 200 yards you would not believe them. You limit everyone off your skill level that is just like trying to talk to a hilairy voter.
Reloading to save money I am sure the saving is going to start soon
Now you've got me interested. My range has a 200 yard line. I'm going to shoot a group at 200 just for ****s and giggles.
I have shot a 3" group with open sights @200 with an AR before, but the BB is a different animal.
RP I can show my last 2 shots at IHMSA on a cardboard chicken at 200 meters. Open sights.Attachment 175892
Revolver International class production. Shoot was over but range was open so I put this out. Show a .44 levergun at 200. I still say a 1 in 20" can be best. You just can't do this with the wrong twist. Do you know what this chicken looks like at 200 meters over opens?
What you fail at is it is not skill. I am out shot many times. It is what your gun can do.
The best shot on earth can't make the wrong thing shoot.
To even say a 1 in 38" is accurate at over 200 yards leads me into the weed smoke cloud.
Dead sorry, can't be done with a Marlin or any with the wrong twist.
Just curious, but how well will that 1 in 38" twist stabilize plain base, cast lead, RNFP 200 grain or 240 grain bullets at around 1250 FPS in a .44 magnum Henry Big Boy?
I'm interested in duplicating the old plain lead 200 grain .44-40 load, and a bit heavier one as well.
I'm sure that someone has done this with the .44 magnum Henry BB, so any insights?
(This is my first post really. I misplaced my first, first post in the wrong thread and deleted same. So, bear with me as I learn my way around.)
Last edited by Prairie Cowboy; 09-09-2016 at 12:39 PM.
Cant be done except luck. I was a kid, found a wood block on the ground, threw it past the project building and hit a bird. It was a parakeet. Now what are the odds. How about a trillion to one? really, a parakeet in Ohio? In the air as I threw a block.Originally Posted by Prairie Cowboy
Some will tell you it works based on one kill. Range the gun will NOT shoot to hit. 220 yards with a 300 gr from a BB is one of those things that means I can throw a block of wood and kill a parakeet where they don't live, every shot.
I am told my 1/2" revolver groups at 50 yards to 100 yards are a lie. Imagine a kill at 220 yards with the wrong twist. Lead was turned to gold too!
Just imagine if I said I got small groups at 220 yards with a BB and how I would be trashed.
RP. can you show groups at that distance?
This is not on a shooter, just plain mechanical truths. The twist can't do it. You made a RB from a smooth bore get crazy and hit something.
Well now that I know it can not be done and I never been real lucky I will avoid shooting at chickens if they are over 50 yards away and a 44 is kind of over kill on a chicken. Saying it was a pure luck shot no problem saying why you feel that way no problem calling me a lair will I have a problem with that part. As far as showing you a group I have all ready covered what a waste of time that would be. I simply stated I have a BB 44 and I love it and I have taken a deer at 220 yards with a 300 grain bullet. You have taken that as a personal attack since what I said is not in line with you. And if you said you shot small groups at 220 yards with a BB would I trash you NO I am not that kind of person would I defend you sure since I have shot a deer at that distance. If I have not done so I would maybe state my thoughts without calling anyone a lair and then continue to troll with more insults on how there is no way it could have been done. And if you say you shot that chicken with a pistol at 200 meters I have no reason to call BS do I believe you I have no reason not to if I did what would that matter? Like I have said I do use my skill level as the base line on what others can do. Yes I understand what your saying about the barrel twist and bullet weight but as long as I hit what I aim at that is what matters to me.
Reloading to save money I am sure the saving is going to start soon
Hey 44 man check this out
I loaded up some Hornady 300 XTP's and went to the range today. I had loads at 18.0, 18.5, and 19.0 grains. The 18.0 load had pretty bad accuracy, but as I increased the powder charge, accuracy improved.
This 5 shot group was at 100 yards with 19.0 gr WIN 296 and a 300 XTP seated at 1.600". Four shots went into 1.8", with the 5th flier opening it up 3.0".
There were no signs of excessive pressure. Brass looks good, but the lever was a little sticky opening it. Do you think it would be safe to try 19.5 gr Win 296? I bet I can get even better accuracy by pushing it faster.
[IMG]yimg-1105880544-1--1395450861 by Adam C, on Flickr[/IMG]
It is never personal. I am a mechanical shooter. I do believe you did it, not the issue. Can you do it again and again?
Not there yet. My SBH uses 20.5 gr of 296 with the 300 XTP. Be aware most jacketed bullets use LESS powder then cast.Hey 44 man check this out
I loaded up some Hornady 300 XTP's and went to the range today. I had loads at 18.0, 18.5, and 19.0 grains. The 18.0 load had pretty bad accuracy, but as I increased the powder charge, accuracy improved.
This 5 shot group was at 100 yards with 19.0 gr WIN 296 and a 300 XTP seated at 1.600". Four shots went into 1.8", with the 5th flier opening it up 3.0".
There were no signs of excessive pressure. Brass looks good, but the lever was a little sticky opening it. Do you think it would be safe to try 19.5 gr Win 296? I bet I can get even better accuracy by pushing it faster.
[IMG]
The problem with a .44 rifle is the case is small and can't reach stability velocity and spin.
Marlin made the .444 with a 1 in 38" and got bashed so they changed to a 1 in 20" If a .444 did not work, how can a .44 mag? I called Marlin and complained. They sent me the Green Hill papers.
Are you NUTS?
If you beat twist, twinkle toes or laser guided boolits are what you use. Twist is so important and I found no magic. Got my 45-70 BFR and did this at 100 yards. Attachment 177531 The hole in the top was 3/4" I had to walk 100 to set it up again and again. Guess the twist? 1 in 14". The other holes were from a friends rifle with the can on the ground.
Sorry, You need spin and a 300 or more from a 1 in 38" in a .44 is dust in the wind.
The source is http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifling_twist_rate.htm
Quote......
Here are the usual twist rates for most of the popular rifle calibers. (For a more comprehensive list, see the expanded "Rifle Barrel Twist List" on the Tables, Charts and Lists page.)
- .17 HMR = 1 in 9"
.22 Long Rifle = 1 in 16"
.222 Remington = 1 in 14"
.223 Remington = 1 in 12" (varmint rifle)
.223 Rem./5.56mm NATO = 1 in 7" (AR-15)
.22-250 Remington = 1 in 14"
.243 Winchester = 1 in 10"
6mm Remington = 1 in 9"
.240 Wby. Mag. = 1 in 10"
.25-06 Remington = 1 in 10"
.257 Wby. Mag. = 1 in 10"
6.5x55 Swedish Mauser = 1 in 7.5"
.260 Remington = 1 in 9"
.264 Win. Mag. = 1 in 9"
.270 Winchester = 1 in 10"
.270 WSM = 1 in 10"
.270 Wby. Mag. = 1 in 10"
7x57 Mauser = 1 in 9"
7mm-08 Remington = 1 in 9.25"
.280 Remington = 1 in 9.25"
7mm WSM = 1 in 9.5"
7mm Rem. Mag. = 1 in 9.25"
7mm Wby. Mag. = 1 in 10"
.30 Carbine = 1 in 16"
.30-30 Winchester = 1 in 12"
.308 Winchester = 1 in 12"
.30-06 Springfield = 1 in 10"
.300 WSM = 1 in 10"
.300 Win. Mag. = 1 in 10"
.300 Wby. Mag. = 1 in 10"
7.62x39 Soviet = 1 in 10" (Ruger)
.303 British = 1 in 10"
.32 Win. Spec. = 1 in 16"
8x57 JS Mauser = 1 in 9.25"
.338 Win. Mag. = 1 in 10"
.340 Wby. Mag. = 1 in 10"
.357 Mag. = 1 in 16"
.35 Remington = 1 in 16"
.35 Whelen = 1 in 16"
.350 Rem. Mag. = 1 in 16"
.375 H&H Mag. = 1 in 12"
.378 Wby. Mag. = 1 in 12"
.416 Rem. Mag. = 1 in 14"
.416 Wby. Mag. = 1 in 14"
.44 Rem. Mag. = 1 in 20"
.444 Marlin = 1 in 20"
.45-70 Govt. (Marlin and Ruger rifles) = 1 in 20"
.450 Marlin = 1 in 20"
.458 Win. Mag. = 1 in 14"
.460 Wby. Mag. = 1 in 16"
Not all rifle barrels of the same caliber have the same twist rate. A fellow ordering a custom rifle may have his own ideas about twist, as may the builder. For example, some .270 Win. barrels are rifled with a 1 in 12 inches twist, some .30-06 barrels are also rifled 1 turn in 12 inches and some .300 Magnum barrels are rifled 1 turn in 14 inches.
Usually these variations make no appreciable difference. Slower twists may give slightly lower pressure, as well as very slightly better accuracy with the lighter bullets in each caliber. They will still stabilize the heavy bullets over practical hunting ranges. However, they might not be the best choice, or quite as accurate, for shooting heavy bullets at extreme range (such as 600-1000 yards).
Unquote....
As you can see by the formula, twist rate has more to do with sectional density then just actual bullet weight.
I too think the .44 should be around 1/20. Faster then that is unnecessary IMO.
Last edited by buckshotshoey; 09-26-2016 at 11:42 AM.
That looks much better. But not total. Look at the 45-70. A BPCR is 1 in 18" but watch boolits go nuts at range. Should be faster twist. Smokeless might make speed. The Marlin and Ruger need shot to max. You can't use a twitch of unique.
Why is my 45-70 BFR 1 in 14"? because it works. Short barrel even 10" . I say as you shorten a barrel twist has to be faster
Many say a 2" .44 mag will shoot, not to be. Velocity is lower and so is spin. So they use shotgun powders that peak fast and ruin the boolit. The old saw that spin is the same no matter the length is stupid.
I will add(i might be wrong but am sure i will be corrected) the the original twist rate for the 45-70 was 1/22. That was with 405 and 500 grain bullets, in the rifle and the carbine.
Groo here
What 44man is getting at is ,RPM...
The longer the bullet, the more RPM needed to make it fly true.
With a given twist, RPM increases with velocity.
A fullup 300gr load in a 44 revolver can have a faster RPM than a mid range load in a 44 rifle.
This most often happens when you load overweight bullets in a slow twist gun as the 243win VS 6mm Rem [the 243 started with a faster twist and shot 100gr bullets better ]
We also see this with the Freedom arms 454.
The 454 was ment to shoot 200 to 260 gr bullets at 1800 to 2000 fps [ AKA high warp speed],so used a 1/24 twist barrel.
When some try to shoot 300 to 350 gr bullets at 45colt speeds or ruger only loads , the groups arn't so good.
The bullets just don't spin up.
But if you shoot to 454 speeds, 1600+ things get much better.
I would think that at close range [50 to 100yds] , a 300+ bullet from a 44 rifle would be all right ,
as long as you drive it hard to get the RPM's up.
But as range increases , the RPM's drop, and if you are at the bottom of the RPM range the bullet will wiggle opening up the groups as it slows down.
My Henry groups well at 150yrds, with a one in 20. I am shooting on the light side. 342gr at about 1750 to 1800fps. Can put them in a paper plate at 150yrds with the rather crude semi buckhorn and bead. No need for me to go heavier for my use (Ohio whitetail), but im confident a 405 gr will do as well. Speculating???.....yes. Have not tried any yet. No real need.
Last edited by buckshotshoey; 09-26-2016 at 12:59 PM.
You say 1 in 20" for the Henry. Wrong, 1 in 38" is listed. Henry, Marlin and Ruger got it wrong. You can't get spin with the small case.
SpecificationsRight from Henry.
Big Boy .44 Magnum Model Number H006 Action Type Lever Action Caliber .44Magnum/.44 Special Capacity 10 rounds Length 38 ½" Barrel Length 20" octagonal with 1:38rh rate of twist
Sorry you misunderstood. My Henry is a 45-70. In previous posts, i mentioned a 405 gr and 500 grain bullet. Thought you would have caught that. My bad. And i only brought up the 45-70 because you did. But i do agree with you that the .44 mag rifle should be faster twist. Disagree on the 45-70, but whatever works for you.
Last edited by buckshotshoey; 09-26-2016 at 03:32 PM.
Forgiven of course. But as boolits get longer and heavier, faster is better .
My BFR 444 is 1:16 for the 10" barrel that is perfect. My new mould is a 280 grain GC WFN 1600 FPS it will be very accurate Henry would have been smarts twist up thier barrels for sure. I shot some 300 grain they were very accurate from the gun but why beat myself up ? My Ruger Backpacker is also a faster rate of twist......why? 2.5" barrel.
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