Busmuth Shot Casting ?

[MnSpring]

OK, New here, Just signed on, been watching for a while, Have Learned a lot.
Here is a question for a, ‘Flush Cutter’.

Background. Have Cast just a few Bullets before. All kinds of Lead Mixes.
First time casting, Bismuth Shot.

Picked up a couple of Shot molds, (Fishing Sinker Type)
From: http://buckshotmold.com/

The Bismuth 88% 12% Tin, cast Really Well, At about 450.

But, after only about 9 pounds, of shot, (’T’ & #4 Buck)
The little, ‘flush clipper’, BROKE.

Have been working on grinding down a cheep China, ‘wire cutter’, so it is is flush cutter.
Works Real Well on the, ‘ends’ of a string. But not the middle.
Will grind down some more, to make it, ’narrower’.
(I cast these, with a connecting sprue, so, 10 balls, are connected)

Purity sure I can make it work. (and if I do, would buy a, ‘good’ one, and do the same)

So, to not having to ‘reinvent the wheel’, Has anybody done this?
Or have a device that works?
Or a modification to a device that works?

Resurrected the old Lee, “Drips A LOT’, cleaned it, and goal to use that Only for the, ‘Lead Free’ mix.
(On Bullets, pour all, with a pot & Ladle, over a old gas ring, with a thermometer, easy to keep a constant temp. The old Lee, ‘Drips A LOT’, heat, , well it never worked, 20 years ago, so why would I think it is going to work now ?)

Those, ‘ Sharpshooter’, molds, work, Really Well,
(Well, after I put on wood handles, that were, ‘longer’, than the mold)

Anyway, ‘Flush Cutter’, for the balls ?

Thanks !

[bangerjim]

That's a helluva waste of Bi and Sn!!!!!!!!!!! That would sweeten a lot of pure to make 9-12 hardness. I have a lot of a Bi alloy and NEVER cast it pure!!!!!!!

Check out the free alloy calculation spreadsheet on here to figure out good mixes. There is very little know about Bi added to Pb, but I have discovered 1/3oz my 59%Bi alloy will take pure Pb to around 12-13 hardness!

It is very hard adn very expensive stuff. Sn alone goes for $10-20/pound.

Think about it.........B4 wasting that good metal.

Good luck in whatever path you trod!

bangerjim

[Goose18557]

Concur with banger that Bi and Sn are pricey. I mix them 90/10 to make my own waterfowl shot out of a dripper. I have been able to make 2 shot that is mostly round and fairly consistent but any larger and it doesn't turn out very well. What are you using your T and #4 buck for?

[Goose18557]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...g-Bismuth-Shot

[victorfox]

do you have these in America? Here they are mosrly used to setup rebar structures for concrete filling.

http://www.lojadomecanico.com.br/ima...s-56485101.JPG

[MnSpring]

Hi Banger Jim,

I Don't know, precisely what, 'B4', 'Bi, & 'Sn', is. I am not a metallurgist.

Goal is, to a have a, 'Non-Toxic', shot, which is now required for Waterfowl.
And as the Last, 'Bismuth shot', I purchased, (Labeled, 'Bismuth Shot Company') is Now , 4 times more expensive.
And as, I, 'roll my own'. And as I had a 12g, 3", Roll Crimp, 1-5/8 oz, #2, at 1500 FPS, (Which I have used up, thus the need for more), which worked Very Well, for Geese, at 40-60 yards. In, Older firearms, which can NOT use, 'Steel' (or like hardness shot). I decided to make shot myself.

I Know, Bismuth, alone, is far to brittle. Thus, adding Tin. The quandary was, How Much? I Looked and looked, NO ONE, 'said', what their, Bismuth mix was. So I extrapolated, and decided 85% Bis/15% Tin. Then, 'Roto Metals', came forth and said they had been experimenting, and their best was a 88% Bismuth, and 12% Tin.

So, I will load, with what I have made. Will they work? Do Not Know, YET.

So, it appears, you have knowledge, of what, Bismuth/Tin Percents work.

Please share. And again, please use, plain language, as it has been a long time, since I have studied the 'periodic' tables, and remember all the abbreviations.

Keep in mind: 'Non-Toxic', (According to the USFWS), and Safe, for, Older, FC, DB, firearms.

Thanks for your time.

[MnSpring]

do you have these in America? Here they are mosrly used to setup rebar structures for concrete filling.

http://www.lojadomecanico.com.br/ima...s-56485101.JPG

Yes, but not parallel, cut. Have tried, modifying one of those. But not as good, as modifying, a, 'side cutter'.

[bangerjim]

Hi Banger Jim,

I Don't know, precisely what, 'B4', 'Bi, & 'Sn', is. I am not a metallurgist.

Goal is, to a have a, 'Non-Toxic', shot, which is now required for Waterfowl.
And as the Last, 'Bismuth shot', I purchased, (Labeled, 'Bismuth Shot Company') is Now , 4 times more expensive.
And as, I, 'roll my own'. And as I had a 12g, 3", Roll Crimp, 1-5/8 oz, #2, at 1500 FPS, (Which I have used up, thus the need for more), which worked Very Well, for Geese, at 40-60 yards. In, Older firearms, which can NOT use, 'Steel' (or like hardness shot). I decided to make shot myself.

I Know, Bismuth, alone, is far to brittle. Thus, adding Tin. The quandary was, How Much? I Looked and looked, NO ONE, 'said', what their, Bismuth mix was. So I extrapolated, and decided 85% Bis/15% Tin. Then, 'Roto Metals', came forth and said they had been experimenting, and their best was a 88% Bismuth, and 12% Tin.

So, I will load, with what I have made. Will they work? Do Not Know, YET.

So, it appears, you have knowledge, of what, Bismuth/Tin Percents work.

Please share. And again, please use, plain language, as it has been a long time, since I have studied the 'periodic' tables, and remember all the abbreviations.

Keep in mind: 'Non-Toxic', (According to the USFWS), and Safe, for, Older, FC, DB, firearms.

Thanks for your time.

You need to download a periodic table. We all use chemical abbreviations on here all the time!

B4 = "before" (!)

Bi = Bismuth metal

Sn = Tin metal

Sb = Antimony metal

Pb = lead metal

Cu = Copper metal

Cd = cadmium metal

Fe = Iron metal

Zn = Zinc

We all use these everyday in our communications to save typing. Some type on teeny little phones! I use full-sized QWERTY boards for my iPads and PC's.

Good luck on your shot quest. I buy my shot (in shells!) when I need it. I cast and powder coat boolits. I rarely ever shoot shotguns. But I do like 410 shells in my Judges.

banger

[MnSpring]

Well I know Bi & Sn, in ingot, is Very Expensive, compared to, Pb. But, Per Pound, is a, LOT, Less expensive than, bought Shot. (In the required, 'non-toxic', shot required for waterfowl).
And I know, Bi alone, is far to brittle, thus adding the Sn.
Believe me, If I had a cheaper source, of non-toxic shot, would buy that in a heartbeat.
But, 'Nice-Shot', and, 'ITX-Original', compared with, the price of 2 cheep molds, and a 2.00, 'Flush Cutter', and raw metal, in the 88% Bi/12 Sn% mix. Is a WHOLE, LOT, LESS, Inexpensive ! (Well, unless you make, Bucko Bucks a hour).

So the question was about the, 'Flush Cutter'.
Currently using the; 'Micro Flush Cutter, by 'toolshop', sold by the big mart-marts, at about 2.00.
To cut the, 'balls', off the spruce.

Looking for a better one. (The Cheep China Junk does NOT Last!)
Have worked on modifying, ones I have laying about.

Simply was trying to, NOT, re-invent the wheel,
if someone else did this.

[MnSpring]

... What are you using your T and #4 buck for?

To Respond; Where I am, their is a goose season, (Greater Canadians, Lesser Canadians, Hutchinson's), which is a State, season, which is Before the Federal season. The Limit on the, 'Before Federal Waterfowl regs', State season, is 5 a day, 10 in possession. When the Federal Regs kick in, it is, 1 a day, 2 in possession.

Used to use #2 Bi shot, (From the Bismuth Company). That was 4 years ago. Ran out. Decided wanted to up the size of the shot, thus, the, 'T' (.020) and the #4 Buck, (.024). (Which is NOT Made, by ANYBODY)
(((Again, in a, Non-Toxic, Safe for OLD, firearms)))

Two years ago, shot twice, with the 'old' Double barrel, and 5 geese fell.
Granted, it was only 40 +/- yards, and they were flying in a tight string, and my, 'shot string', was very apparently, 'Long'.

So, going to try something new this year. Did purchase some, 'Kent', factory 'Bismuth' loaded shells. BUT, the Largest is #4, and it is only 1450 fps. But, 'rolling my own', can easily get, Bigger, Better, Faster.

But that is my experiment.
The question was about a, 'Flush Cutter'.
The rest was background, to hopefully communicate, the, 'why', of a, 'flush cutter'.

[runfiverun]

this isn't pertaining to the cutter either but it might help.
I know the original Bi shells used 5% Sn it was just enough to keep the pellets from shattering [mostly] a bit more tin will help, but it lowers the weight too.

when I make Buckshot I drop the pellets from about 12-14" above the table, this breaks them apart.
then I trim the top nubs.
after they cool down and sit for a few days I put them in my tumbler [3-4lbs at a time enough for them to slightly jostle around in a circle and not bounce about] I then add some steel BB's/#2's and turn it on and add a poof or two of colloidal graphite.
I let it run for a couple of hours.
this rounds out the shot and adds the graphite.
as I take the shot out of the tumbler I inspect it because some of the end nibs just get sharpened and I can then nip them off flush and re-run them.
[I just use a magnet to get my steel shot back]

[MnSpring]

... I put them in my tumbler [3-4lbs at a time enough for them to slightly jostle around in a circle and not bounce about] I then add some steel BB's/#2's and turn it on and add a poof or two of colloidal graphite. ...

rinfiverun,
Thanks. Even though, no clipper info, What you said was very useful for what I am doing.

Again being new to, molding, buckshot, with Bi., which come out purty darn round, except for that darn spruce.

I Was just experimenting, with a, Tumbler today, And by themselves, nothing, then I did about 1/4 washed sand, (Granite is harder than Bi.), a, VERY, little better. Next, was going to be some, ‘Steel’ shot. (And separate with a magnet)

Thanks for, confirming, that Path, is where someone else, has trod.

The other experiment, is go to the Vibrated instead of, Tumbled.

One thing different, I have always used, ‘Motor-Mica’. ‘Q’ tip, and just run it around the inside of the hull. Than the Wads, put a bag, inside a old 8 lb cardboard powder container, with a a couple of spoon full’s of MM. And Shook them like crazy.
Then a dab of MM, in a little can, with the shot, same thing. Don’t know if it works, but made me, ‘think’, it did.

Thanks again.

[runfiverun]

mica on the wads does help especially with the older hulls.
shot shell hulls get rough inside as you shoot them so adding the mica to the wads helps them act more like newer shells.

you can get the graphite easy enough, many times it's called locksmith's graphite because it's used in door lucks.
graphiting the larger shot helps it glide through the choke easier, since it allows the shot to slide around and not bridge.
that's also what buffer does but buffer also protects the shot during acceleration, it unfortunately needs to be counted as payload weight so it's a win/loss proposition.

[Fishman]

For a flush cutter you might try one of the small stainless nail cutters that are sold just about everywhere. They look like side cutters but are very sharp and cut flush. While I haven't used them like this, I have a pair and it looks like it should work.

[MnSpring]

For a flush cutter you might try one of the small stainless nail cutters ...

Today, I picked up a new, small, 'side cutter'. It is much more substantial. And I filed down, the, 'outside', to flat, and took some off the sides, so narrower. What I like about it, is that, it is, 'spring' loaded, so the handles always return to 'open'.
Will try it, next time I mold the, 'shot'. Then let you know.

If it works, then no doubt, someone, who has a mill, and medal crafting experience, could do a MUCH, better job.
(I think, almost anything would be better than a grinder and a file )

[MnSpring]

I put them in my tumbler [3-4lbs at a time enough for them to slightly jostle around in a circle and not bounce about] I then add some steel BB's/#2's and turn it on and add a poof or two of colloidal graphite. I let it run for a couple of hours.
this rounds out the shot and adds the graphite. ...

Thank you. Experiment, (Partially), completed. The Tumbler, about 4 lbs, of, "T" Bismuth shot,
1st was just shot, 3 hours, very little.
Next was 3 hours, with washed sand, A little better.
Next was, about 2 oz, of regular, steel BB's, (no sand), Better.

Next, brought out the, vibrator, (What a Racket, with no walnut/corn cob, media)
Then did 9 lbs, of #4 buck Bismuth, with 2 os of BB's, and 6 oz of, 'Old steel Shells', I just cut apart, #6, and a teaspoon of Motor Mikea. Vibrated for 3 hours. And, Viola! they are, mostly round. (Outside of the odd, 'sharp' spruce), the few that had. The thin fins on the ones, that I did not catch, and re melt, fins were Gone.

So when the PID arrives, will plug it into the, 'drip-0-matic', then cast up the remaining 4 lbs. and, "Vibrate', with the steel shot and M.M.

And yes the magnet works well. First I used a 'Cow', magnet.
Then one I crafted one with a piece of plastic conduit, which I had a bunch of round magnets, which 'Just fit' inside. A Dab of epoxy, on each one. Now have a, 'Stir' stick. Which sucks out the steel, from the Bismuth/mix. (3 are outside the plastic conduit). Easier to take off the steel balls.

When I get the, 'rountuit', will report on the patterning.

And yes, Guessing they are NOT ALL, .024 dia. They probably vary from, .023 to .0245.
Don't Care, it is a, Shot Gun, and they are 'Round'.

Estimating, my cost, per shell, will be about 1.35-1.45, VS, 2.30-2.40 for factory.

And in a size, which one CAN NOT GET, in ITX-10, or Nice Shot.
So the 14.00 per pound, of 88%Bi/12%Sn, is worth it.

Steel Shot, a LOT cheaper. BUT, you just keep shooting that, in your older fixed choke guns.
Just makes the ones, everyone else has, more valuable.

[runfiverun]

I just smiled a little smile.
the savings and getting what you want is the point of doing things yourself.
it's even more gratifying when you take home game with 'YOUR' creation.

I have seen the bulged barrels from using steel shot In the thin walled guns.

[too many things]

dog toe nail clippers work very good. many times at a big lots or the like for .99