OMG - Aluminum Foil patching !

[ascast]

thats funny== why call it "silvertip" when it the body that's silver? Odd, I had lots of that old stuff and mine always had a silvertip and copper colored body. Mine was in rifle calibers only.

[johnson1942]

i tried aluminum foil with a poly coating on one side in patching fast twist muzzleloader bullets and it worked well. i patched with the poly side out. very hard to patch a bullets with aluminum foil as compared to paper so why switch? poly coated foil does work though. now i chase single wrap with poly coated 18 pound freezer paper. poly side out.

[Walkingwolf]

thats funny== why call it "silvertip" when it the body that's silver? Odd, I had lots of that old stuff and mine always had a silvertip and copper colored body. Mine was in rifle calibers only.

I pulled silver tip Winchester bullets in several calibers, and they all were aluminum jackets.

[big bore 99]

Seems it would be very abrasive. Don't think I'd try it. I did try out some copper foil once but turned out to be a mess and worse accuracy.

[Walkingwolf]

Seems it would be very abrasive. Don't think I'd try it. I did try out some copper foil once but turned out to be a mess and worse accuracy.

Aluminum has a lower Bhn than copper. Alum 15 HB, copper 35 HB. It has a Bhn closer to hard cast, but higher melting point then lead. Should result in higher velocity than copper, may be the reason for the use in Winchester ammunition.

Alum melt point 1,221°F, lead 621.5°F, depending on the alloy about double. So one gets the benefits of lead lubricity, and higher melt point. I have loaded silver tips really hot in a S&W model 28, and never once had any leading. Not sure how thin alum used for patching would hold up though, seems like it would tear.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Seems it would be very abrasive. Don't think I'd try it. I did try out some copper foil once but turned out to be a mess and worse accuracy.

I've been told that it is quite a good bearing material for a hardened steel shaft. There might be problems like galvanic corrosion which seem like abrasion, but I doubt very much if there is abrasion in the strict sense of the word. I don't know enough to predict galvanic corrosion, and I'm not sure if anybody does. But I'm sure it takes time in contact.

The oxide coating on aluminium is almost inconceivably thin and fine. I think aluminium thicker than ordinary kitchen foil would be needed, though.

[JavelinaBlanco]

Are you speaking of "ghost" bullets now?

Be careful what you say !

Hillary might hear of that and use it as one more reason to make guns illegal -
you can't trace Paper Patched Bullets to any rifle !

Do you imagine that she reads this Forum..........?

DoctorBill

[GONRA]

GONRA sez to use a water solution of lye / NaOH / sodium hydroxide
to chemically react / dissolve any Al "bore leading".
Bet some of those lye / NaOH / sodium hydroxide based drain cleaners would doit fast!

Make sure to clean it all out with hot water -
(just like KCl / potassium chloride corrosive priming residue)
dry bore and oil promptly.

[mozeppa]

i used to have 45acp ammo that was factory made with aluminum bullets ....around 100 grains in weight.

but looked to be the size of 230 grain hollow points.

[Lead pot]

I think some of you are confusing aluminum jackets from gilding. that is a alloy of copper and zinc or silver gild.

[DoctorBill]

Density = Mass / Volume

I should think that a 100 gr Aluminum bullet would be too large a volume
for a .45 acp.

100 gr = 6.48 grams. Density of Lead 11.34 g/cc Aluminum 2.70 g/cc

100 gr of lead --> ~ 0.57 cc = 6.48 / 11.34

100 gr Aluminum --> 2.4 cc = 6.48 / 2.70

i.e. ---- 11.44 / 2.70 = 4.2

An Aluminum Bullet of the same grains mass has a 4.2 times larger volume.

The bearing surface of the Aluminum slug in the barrel would be quite a bit larger than a
lead bullet of the same mass.

Could one even chamber a .45 acp with a 100 gr Aluminum bullet ?



If I am full of Baloney, someone let me know !

DoctorBill

[mozeppa]

Density = Mass / Volume

I should think that a 100 gr Aluminum bullet would be too large a volume
for a .45 acp.

100 gr = 6.48 grams. Density of Lead 11.34 g/cc Aluminum 2.70 g/cc

100 gr of lead --> ~ 0.57 cc = 6.48 / 11.34

100 gr Aluminum --> 2.4 cc = 6.48 / 2.70

i.e. ---- 11.44 / 2.70 = 4.2

An Aluminum Bullet of the same grains mass has a 4.2 times larger volume.

The bearing surface of the Aluminum slug in the barrel would be quite a bit larger than a
lead bullet of the same mass.

Could one even chamber a .45 acp with a 100 gr Aluminum bullet ?



If I am full of Baloney, someone let me know !

DoctorBill

no...yer not full-o-baloney ... i did say "around"
so...i'm wrong on the weight.

what i'm not wrong on is the size....it was the size of a230 grain hollow point....same configuration....and
it was made of aluminum....and the weight is unknown to me at this time....all i know is that the bullet was extremely light in weight.

and now that i've had some time to think on it ....they may have been 117 grains....and i may still be wrong.

*************** update*****************

i found the ammo it was made "AGUILA" and called the "IQ" line of defensive ammo.

looking for pictures now.

[mozeppa]

Attachment 180515

[DoctorBill]

What is an "Intelligent Bullet" anyway ?!

I believe that it is obvious that the "AGUILA" bullet as shown cannot
possibly be made of Aluminum. It would have to be machined since the
melting point of Aluminum is around 1200 °F. You don't simply 'cast'
Aluminum bullets so easily. Could be pressure swaged as Aluminum is soft.

Besides, an Aluminum bullet of those dimensions would have such a low
mass as to be worthless to fire at anything except a foot away.

That's why the Military uses spent Uranium in Anti-Tank Rounds....
High Density to penetrate.

What would be the point of Aluminum bullets ?!

If you have them, kinetically pull one and weigh it. You will see that it is
made of some dense metal or plated to look like Aluminum.

DoctorBill

Edited in a few minutes later - Just found this on Google.
http://www.thegunzone.com/aguila-iq.html
Read it toward the end....
"The primary difference is in the thickness of the jacket, which is made from steel (with a gilded metal coating). The core is a basic lead/antimony mix. "

So - wherever you go - there you are !

[mozeppa]

will pull one when wife lets me out that far.

total knee replacement 3 days ago.

[DoctorBill]

Ouch ! I know a guy who had that done.

Now that you know what the bullet is, from the Internet Search,
why waste it ?

DoctorBill

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Winchester has had 'Silvertip' Rifle ammunition since before WW2. The rifle ammunition was a copper jacketed bullet with an aluminum cap. May still be some around, now I think the Winchester Silvertip RIFLE ammunition has a copper jacket with a polymer tip. In the 80's (?) Winchester brought out a line of HANDGUN ammunition called Silvertip. This is an aluminum alloy jacket over a lead core. Made in most popular calibers - 45 Colt, 45 ACP, 44 Special, 357, others. May still be in production but wiped out by ' THE PANICS'. Had/has a decent reputation but before the 'FBI' testing.
Never liked the performance of the RIFLE ammunition on game, the HANDGUN ammunition was reliable and functioned well.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Winchester has had 'Silvertip' Rifle ammunition since before WW2. The rifle ammunition was a copper jacketed bullet with an aluminum cap. May still be some around, now I think the Winchester Silvertip RIFLE ammunition has a copper jacket with a polymer tip. In the 80's (?) Winchester brought out a line of HANDGUN ammunition called Silvertip. This is an aluminum alloy jacket over a lead core. Made in most popular calibers - 45 Colt, 45 ACP, 44 Special, 357, others. May still be in production but wiped out by ' THE PANICS'. Had/has a decent reputation but before the 'FBI' testing.
Never liked the performance of the RIFLE ammunition on game, the HANDGUN ammunition was reliable and functioned well.

Whether or not it was commercially viable, Winchester aren't the sort of people to go into that unless they had satisfied themselves on the supposed abrasiveness of the oxide layer.

[DoctorBill]

What would be the point of making an Aluminum Clad bullet ?

There would have to be an advantage to doing it, other than just 'looks'.

Would it penetrate better ? Copper jacketed bullets have lasted
essentially forever. The polymer tips are to cover the 'hollow point'
to allow for mushrooming.
Unless Aluminum makes for better mushrooming or survives the
high velocity trip to the target better, why go to the trouble of swaging
Aluminum into a bullet blanket or cover ?

It just seems illogical to mess about with Aluminum where a more
dense metal would actually increase the momentum of the projectile.

DoctorBill

[Lead pot]

I had a lot of plumbing service calls at a local factory. They had a injection caster that cast's aluminum parts. The melted aluminum was like a soft butter and it was injected into a mould. They also used a zink casting machine.