Long range (500-1000yd) rifles and equipment

[Frank46]

While my LR experience is nil I keep wondering about using the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser cartridge for long range. And wondering why it never found use. Frank

[Scharfschuetze]

While my LR experience is nil I keep wondering about using the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser cartridge for long range. And wondering why it never found use. Frank

Frank,

I've shot the military Sweeds out through 600 yards with both the original round nose military bullets and the later military spitzer bullets. They shoot very well, but the lack of windage adjustment on the Model 95's rear sight can challenge you when it gets windy in the afternoon. Ballistically though, it's a great cartridge and would certainly satisfy the OPs needs.

In a well built rifle with good sights, it would really do well; but I think that it's pretty much a niche round in the US for most shooters other than service rifle collectors.

[toallmy]

I don't want to stop you from building a new rifle , but their is a good chance you already have something in the safe that can be tuned in to handle some long shooting , you probably won't win a match but may surprise yourself . A few years ago I was talking with a good friend , and I said I want to build me a 1000 yard rifle and he walked over to the wall and picked up a savage 110 he had picked up form a fellow that discovered he did not care for recoil . Then he said spend the money on seeing what your shooting at , put the rest in components and brass . Now I'm not finished with the project yet but I have learned allot .

[Doc Highwall]

I have shot my 223 with 80 grain bullets to 1000 yards and have done well, but by going up to 6mm you can get bullets with a much greater B.C.. It has been mention about using the 6XC cartridge and it is a great one for what it does, along with greater barrel life over the 243 Winchester. I have one on a CG Millennium action with a 30" barrel. I also have the 6mm Br. in both rifle and handgun, and they do well also.

A long time ago a friend mentioned that when he was in the Marines shooting long range, that the biggest mistake he made was going to a 300 Winchester mag over the 308 Winchester for less wind drift, the increased recoil did not help his shooting, and that he would have been better off just learning to read the wind.

If you really want to improve your long range shooting, shoot small-bore and learn how to really follow through on your shots, and improve your wind reading skills at the same time.

What I like about the 6mm Br is good brass from Lapua is easy to get and there are plenty of great bullets 100 plus grains to choose from and lots of loads for them. Barrel life is great, and will out shoot a lot of other cartridges while using less powder.

[tygar]

What Scharfe says is true but with the heavy, long barrels on the 1k guns, when you shoot out the throat & can't seat further out, just cut some off & re-chamber. Most good barrels can be just as accurate the 2nd time around. Same thing on the crown, just cut & re-crown.

My "heavy" heavy rifle started life as 34" or so & as a 300wby (if I remember correctly) when it won the nationals in the late 90s. It's now about 31" & a 300WSM & is still shooting good.

I also strongly agree with the 308. Mine is basically the Marine Corps R700 sniper gun used until recently. It's almost as good as my BR guns to 500 & like I said 9 ring avg at 1k. 24" HB, nightforce & weighs around 12 or 13#s. 175 Bergers w/43.5-44.5 RL15. I can't even guess how many rounds I have thru it but I know at least 4 boxes of 500 & my bullets are seated almost where they were when I started.

I am strongly considering changing up on my "medium" heavy gun. It is the twin of the 1k winner a few years ago, Batt action, 300 WinMag, done by Clay Spenser & it came with an extra barrel in 6 Dasher. So just for grins, think I may have Jeff Walker re-chamber to 6 Creedmoor & screw it on & see what it does. (unless someone wants to pay me a butt load of $ & take it off my hands) lol

As for barrel life, I just count it as a cost of doing business. If you pick one that eats throats figure 1k rounds & accuracy starts decreasing m/l. I do have over 1k rounds thru my 6.5-284 & so far, no decrease, but if it does, set it back & clean it up.

I also like the 5.56, but even with my LR AR, 26" HB, sub MOA out to 600 is about all I can do, & if its gusty, forget it. That bullet bounces around like a BB in a beer can.

Go to some match, both BR & tacticals & see what guys are shooting & what floats your boat.

I really like a light hunting rifle, less than 8#s that can do .5-1 MOA at 500, thats why my 308 only goes as far as the range. 13# F class guns are too heavy for an old guy like me to hump very far.

[30calflash]

Always thought a 6.5-06 would make for a good LR rifle. Easy to make cases, without the belt, adequate case capacity, much available in the way of good bullets.

[osteodoc08]

Looked at a few options today. On the lower end was a Savage Model 10T in 6.5 Creedmoor ($600), looked at a Remington Long Range ($700), a Remington Sendero in 300 WM ($1300) and a Masterpiece Arms BA chassis gun ($2500). Obviously the Savage 10T and Remington Long Range are definitely capable and would leave money for really good glass and plenty for components.

Someone mentioned using something I already have.

Possible candidates include my Stag Super Varminter that I could experiment with 75gr AMaxs and see how they do to 500-600 and get range and trigger time in. I have my recently acquired Kimber Longmaster in 308. My Kimber Varminter in 22-250 is also a consideration but it's 1:14 handicaps me for the heavier bullets. A heavy barreled Sako A3 in 25-06 but the BC of those bullets aren't as high as the other calibers.

[fordwannabe]

This what I did. I bought a regular old Savage 300 win mag with a detachable mag, and accu trigger, for less than $500. Sent it to a guy in Idaho for a kickin muzzle brake. Spent my money on a EGW base, Warne rings, good Vortex scope an extra mag and reloading components. I have the same money out as a higher end rifle but have a solid setup between my scope and my rifle, and extra ammobto practice. You asked my opinion so there it is.Tom

[country gent]

ANother nice addition if dedicated long range rifle is to find a solid scope base with 20 mins elevation built into it. This keeps the reticle centered closer at long range and gives a better "view" thru the scope. It also allows for more up elevation where you need it. Draw back is the rifle may not zero at 100 or 200yds. A tall target may be needed to shoot at the bull and hit above it. The Savage should do good for what you want to do. If not barrel swaps are easy on them. A plus to the savage is this feature also. You could have a rifle with swap barrels.

[tygar]

Your looking at the Savages is the way to go if you don't want to build one. For the accuracy, they are very inexpensive.

You can get the SAV 16FCSS 300WSM 24" DBM at 6.75# at $700, or the SAV 12VLP 308 26" at $850 & 10#s. Some even 11 or 12 #s.

Or, some up to $1700 or more & all in the calibers that will do the job from 6.5 - 300WinMag.

Just remember the scope needs to look a fly in the eye at 1k. Let us know which way u go.

[Frank46]

What with all the newer calibers or cartridges that have come out in the last few years a Sierra 175 grain match king will easily stay supersonic @1000yds. yeah were talking about the 30-06. Which was shooting at paper for almost 100 years. Good model 70 action with a tuned trigger and a sniper stock instead of the old marksman stock and good optics and you should go. Always did like the model 70 action. Little harder to bed than a model 700 But well worth the effort. I've had two pre'64 model 70's match rifles in 30-06 and may be old fashioned but after shooting mucho rounds down range I've come to the conclusion that it is the way to go. I have a post '64 model 70 match rifle in 30-06 and while I cannot see the iron sights as well as I used to with good optics should get the job done. And for whatever reason I've always found it easier to get a good accurate load developed for the '06 than the 308. Frank

[B. Lumpkin]

The lowly 308 with a 175gr SMK going 2550+ FP will get you to 1,000 yards accurately and easily. Available components, easy on the barrel, easy on the shoulder. The savage target rifle have more than enough accuracy to get you there as well. Buy one, shoot the barrel out, then invest in a top shelf barrel.

[Mauser48]

Tikka t3 in 260 remington with a burris xtr ii.

[liliysdad]

The lowly 308 with a 175gr SMK going 2550+ FP will get you to 1,000 yards accurately and easily. Available components, easy on the barrel, easy on the shoulder. The savage target rifle have more than enough accuracy to get you there as well. Buy one, shoot the barrel out, then invest in a top shelf barrel.

Sure, the 308 will "get there," but once you delve into the world of 6 and 6.5 and high BC bullets...the 308 suddenly become tiresome and frustrating. Much like a 66 Chevy will "get you there," a new pickup will do it a lot better, faster, and more efficiently.

[B. Lumpkin]

Yes, the 6.5 and 6mm will get you there faster, with less drop, less drift, and less barrel life.

[liliysdad]

Yes barrel life is reduced...but barrels are a consumable just like brass and bullets.

I expect to see about 1500-1750 rounds through my current .243AI tube, then another 500-750 after a setback.

[B. Lumpkin]

I'm usually replacing the barrel at around 1,000 rds on my 6mm guns. I don't do setbacks as I've never had a barrel maintain the same accuracy afterwards. Close, but not the same and close just doesn't cut it. I love the 6mm rounds, but they can be harsh on barrels, lol.

[liliysdad]

Yes, they are.

Im not shooting benchrest..as a matter of fact, the only time my long guns see paper is load development and zero confirmation. Other than that, its steel. For me, close is good enough, and a set back typically does that for me.

[M-Tecs]

The 6mm Dasher is stlll competitive for F Class and 1,000 Bench Rest at plus 3,000 rounds and still going. None of the 7 or 8 Dashers that I have built have needed barrel replacement yet. I've built some 6mm BRs that are over 4,000 rounds and still holding elevation at 1,000. I just replaced a 6mm BR with 4,300 rounds.

The claims for the 6mm Competition Match barrel life are very interesting but I have never built one. The designer won the nationals at Camp Perry with it a couple of years ago.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...tch-mcr-95524/

http://www.teamblaster.net/reviews/6CM.pdf

http://6mmbr.websitetoolbox.com/post...petition+match

I have never built a 243AI for a completion rifle so I can not comment but the standard 243 Winchester will rarely still be competitive at 2,000 rounds.

[country gent]

My last 243 win barrel went 2400 rds when the X count sarted dropping at 600yds. It was a Hart SS 1-7twist over the course contour. Chamber was a tight neck version at .268 neck dia throated for 105-115 grn vld bullets. When there up and shooting the various 6 and 6.5s are like a laser but barrel life can be an issue. On a true long range rifle 2000-2500 rds is several years of shooting if you can resist playing with it for other uses. The good old 308 also opens up other long range matches to you like the Palma where certain calibers are required. I have used a savage 110 action to prove test new cartridges over the years. Its a great action for this as the bolt head can be changed out to what you need, and barrel swaps are easy with the barrel nut. A good trigger and scope base with some elevation built into it and your in good shape.