Nightforce suit by Leupold & Stevens for patent violations

[Ballistics in Scotland]

All of that is irrelevant to patent infringement though.

So it is. Invention isn't just a matter of a cartoon light-bulb appearing over someone's head. People work and invest money to develop new ideas, and it is always a gamble in which they might throw all that away, but deserve to gain a lot if manufacture earns a lot.

The function of a patent system isn't just to protect knowhow, but to give manufacturers an easy (now internet-searchable) way of learning about it. If patent law doesn't give adequate protection, it is setting some of the most valuable among us up for parasitism.

[dragon813gt]

They could have been trying to settle it out of court and it failed. At that point the only option left is to go to court. Of course the lawyers are the ones that really win. This is the case regardless of what the suit is over.

[B. Lumpkin]

Of course the lawyers are the ones that really win. This is the case regardless of what the suit is over.

Unless you are Marilyn Mosby.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The might just not have investigated the internals of every scope on the market. Lawyers are indeed likely to gain quite a bit, but perhaps not as much as a share of the hunting scope market is worth, and the knowledge that lawyers will be involved will greatly reduce the chances of someone else doing it with some other intellectual property of theirs.

[Don Fischer]

obviously leupold has become worried, because their scopes just dont compare with many on the market. id think if they had a claim, they would have gone after them a long time ago.

Don't compare? Your kidding, right?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Some of the qualities of scopes can be measured and compared to a degree beyond the human eye to tell the difference.

[Don Fischer]

Having greater clarity than the human eye can serve's no purpose!

[lefty o]

Don't compare? Your kidding, right?

not in the least.

[wv109323]

I am sure before legal action was taken there were "Cease and Desist" letters sent to avoid a lawsuit.

[akajun]

Having greater clarity than the human eye can serve's no purpose!

When trying to read mirage or see at long distance it does, greatly.

[garym1a2]

Not if they took 40% of your buisness and put many of your employees out of work.

I'd be stoked if someone copied my work.

[dragon813gt]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. But there are patent laws for a reason. Patents have been abused as of late, specifically in the tech sector. That doesn't mean you don't have to pay royalties when using someone else's patent.

[country gent]

If I remeber correctly Night force started out reworking Lepoulds target scopes, Upping the power ranges and "improving /tuning" the movements and parallax adjustments originally. For years John Browning didnt produce a firearm in production but desighned and built then sold the patent rights to them. How colt got the 1911 and winchester several models or rifles shotguns. Investing the time and resources into developing new technology and then appling for patents and those expenses is expensive to protect your ideas. Its surprising how much reverse engineering takes place and the work that goes into "working around" a patent in industry. Patents have a Life span and then expire, Look at all the 1911 makers now as an example. Whats really unique is look at most employment agreements and Ideas, manufacturing processes, and new technology done on the job is property of the employer not the person. Lepould has the right to protect thier investment in time materials and money.

[garym1a2]

Utility patents are good for 20 years from date of file. Design patents are good for only 15 years from date of file. If the renew fees are paid every 4 years.

[PAT303]

not in the least.

Leupolds market share here is falling all the time,like Rem/Winny/Marlin rifles there is too many faulty one's being made. Pat

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Leupolds market share here is falling all the time,like Rem/Winny/Marlin rifles there is too many faulty one's being made. Pat

I think the Far East having got its act together on quality at a lower price has a lot more to do with it. It is a long, long time since Japan was producing lenses and coatings it was hard to beat, but for a while their physical construction was weaker. Not any more, and their quality, possibly with their guidance, has spread into China too.

[joelpend]

If I remeber correctly Night force started out reworking Lepoulds target scopes, Upping the power ranges and "improving /tuning" the movements and parallax adjustments originally.

Never heard this about Nightforce. Premier Reticles reworked Leupolds for years changing reticles and boosting the magnification.

[HangFireW8]

Sorry but leupold sat on its laurels for years
...
Leaupold had to come up with their mark 6 and mark 8 line to compete.

Leupold had some mis-steps. They had problems with their LPS (Leupold Premier Scopes), and the Leica partnership scopes had those same problems. They simply didn't have the Euro quality for the Euro price. Some people burned by LPS or Leica purchases continue to haunt forums and burn down the Leupold name... can't say that I blame them.

But since then... they sat on their laurels, but they came out with new Mark lines of scopes. Uh-huh. And before that they completely updated their computer design systems and completely revamped their entire Vari-X I/II/III line-ups to VX, and they also introduced the new VX-7 series, all while, uh, sitting on their laurels.

Are there some better values or better/more expensive scopes at certain price points? Sure. It's a highly competitive market. But I've noticed that some people get a real hard on just when the "L" name is mentioned. It's one of the same two stories. My scope cost half as much and is as good or better. Or, my scope (usually: Nightforce) cost more because it is so much better. Ran into one of those at the range lately. He had to go out of his way to point out that HE had a NIGHTFORCE and I only had a LEUPOLD. OK... whatever.

[lefty o]

Leupold had some mis-steps. They had problems with their LPS (Leupold Premier Scopes), and the Leica partnership scopes had those same problems. They simply didn't have the Euro quality for the Euro price. Some people burned by LPS or Leica purchases continue to haunt forums and burn down the Leupold name... can't say that I blame them.

But since then... they sat on their laurels, but they came out with new Mark lines of scopes. Uh-huh. And before that they completely updated their computer design systems and completely revamped their entire Vari-X I/II/III line-ups to VX, and they also introduced the new VX-7 series, all while, uh, sitting on their laurels.

Are there some better values or better/more expensive scopes at certain price points? Sure. It's a highly competitive market. But I've noticed that some people get a real hard on just when the "L" name is mentioned. It's one of the same two stories. My scope cost half as much and is as good or better. Or, my scope (usually: Nightforce) cost more because it is so much better. Ran into one of those at the range lately. He had to go out of his way to point out that HE had a NIGHTFORCE and I only had a LEUPOLD. OK... whatever.

it not even all about that. get past the scope snobbery. if you want to go deer hunting, leupold makes your scope. once you get past that realm though leupold has been sitting on its thumbs. cost vs quality, leupold is not in the game. i own old leupolds, new leupolds, and nightforce scopes among others, and guarantee if you lay a new luepold scope and a new nightforce scope of the same cost on the table and say pick one, its not gonna be the leupold.

[dtknowles]

it not even all about that. get past the scope snobbery. if you want to go deer hunting, leupold makes your scope. once you get past that realm though leupold has been sitting on its thumbs. cost vs quality, leupold is not in the game. i own old leupolds, new leupolds, and nightforce scopes among others, and guarantee if you lay a new luepold scope and a new nightforce scope of the same cost on the table and say pick one, its not gonna be the leupold.

That might be right where there product ranges overlap. I don't own any Nightforce scopes because I was not aware of them (they might not have been around yet) when I last bought a high end scope.

Does Nightforce make any scopes that retail for less than $800, Leupold does. Does Leupold make any scopes that retail for more than $2000, I know Nightforce does.

I could see how Nightforce could have an advantage because the stole intellectual property from Leupold. If you did not have to spend the money on R&D then maybe you could sell a better product for a lower price.

Could you point to the scopes you are talking about where their product ranges overlap and show where they have two similar scopes for the same price and how the Nightforce scope is better?

Tim