Herniated disc and cortisone injection....anyone been down this road?

[trails4u]

You're spot on BW.....I was mid-rehab from a hip surgery when the disc went in my back. Got to get it healed up before I can do the other hip. Gettin' old ain't for the faint of heart!!!!!!

[Blackwater]

Amen to that last! When I was a kid, we'd stop by friends' homes if they were in the yard and yak a bit. We "men" would stand around the load bed of an old pickup, and the old men would sometimes talk about their miseries, and laugh, and you could see the twinkle in their eyes. I thought they were kidding and exaggerating! Such was the dumb kid I was! How was I to know they were only speaking of the tip of the iceberg?

Their sense of humor, and their humility in just being grateful to still be here, kept their perspectives straight. And I never realized it at the time, but it really hadn't been that long when many folks died in thier 40's from stroke and all sorts of things that weren't very well understood back then. How lucky we truly are to still be here in our "Golden Years!"

Comparing the pain and pleasures in my life now, I'm STILL way ahead of the game, and with all the stuff that surgeons and docs can do today, we are truly, deeply and righteously blessed! And we're the first generation on earth to have access to these wonders. Very humbling! Who could complain in the knowledge of all that?

[MaryB]

9 surgeries and I am still going! Part of it is I am to stubborn to quit lol pain lets me know I am alive each morning!

[Mytmousemalibu]

Been down this road......? Not only have I been down this road, I'm one of many that has paved a mile or two with blood, sweat and tears. Boy, where do I start! My problems started in my mid-teens and not too far into my 20's I was diagnosed. I have 3 herniated disks, one in each zone, cervical, thoracic, and lumbar. Diagnosed with degenerative disk disease, moderate severity congenital scoliosis oh and some arthritis too. All found in my early 20's and at the ripe old age of 33, things haven't improved, actually the opposite of improve. My lumbar L4-L5 is the bane of my existence. That disk has ruptured to a small degree and the gel that is in our disks is a nerve irritant which is leaking into my nerve canal. I have tried just about everything short of surgery with some things helping, some are a draw, some I won't dare do again. I have done cortisone epidural injections in the past with some success but only after my anesthesiologist targeted the right area. It reduced my need to buffer with pain meds as much and did reduce my pain level overall. The bad thing is cortisone isn't good for our disks so it's kinda a win-lose deal. Physical therapy helped a small degree but nothing exhilarating. I had an inversion table for a little while and I can't say I really noticed much. The biggest thing for me has been to be considerate to things that piss my back off but stay active without overdoing it. I can't do any one thing for too long before pain really escalates. Standing, sitting, lying down, walking, etc. I'm reliant on pain meds to a degree, it's the only real relief I get until I come to the surgery crossroads. Without, I am in agony. Surgery, that is what it's going to take and for the time being, it's going to have to wait. I am a little hesitant too because it can be a real crapshoot. For everyone that surgery really helps, there seems to be an equal number of people it doesn't or makes worse. For now, I have to suck it up and carry on for more reasons besides my own trepidation.

My advise to you is to retain physicians you trust and try some of the easier things first. Don't go sign up for surgery in a hurry unless you are really advised to. Surgery should be the last option. If you can get by without perscription pain meds, I would do so. If you don't have really, really good self control, it can lead you down a really troubled road. I have done fine going on 12-13yrs of the perscription meds path but have personally witnessed many people crumble. Again, I'll advise not to go that path if you can. We are all different in our causes & effects and what works for us. I certainly wish you the best for recovery and finding relief!

[MaryB]

Low back surgery(lumbar decompression, they removed chewed bits of disc and a lot of bone spurs) helped me for 5 years. That was 5 more years of a relatively pain free lower back. Worthwhile trade off in my opinion.

[trails4u]

I appreciate the continued input on this thread, everyone! After a couple weeks of being disappointed in the first cortisone injection, I have since seen improvement. I'm nowhere near 100%....but at least at a point where the pain is manageable without any meds, and able to sleep at night. HUGE improvement for me...guess it just took longer for me for the cortisone to work. I've since greatly increased my physical activity...walking quite a bit more, on purpose, and just doing more in general. It causes temporary pain and discomfort, but seems to help in the long run. I've hit the 'cautiously optimistic' stage....hope it holds out!

God Speed!

Trails.

[Pine Baron]

Great news, Trails. Praying for continued improvement.

[Windwalker 45acp]

Trails,

Maybe I missed it, but which type of injection was it? Lumbar epidural, Transforaminal, Caudill, etc???

[trails4u]

Trails,

Maybe I missed it, but which type of injection was it? Lumbar epidural, Transforaminal, Caudill, etc???

I believe it was the TF.....as the herniation is directly impacting the nerve root.

[rheagunman]

I'm in the same boat to. Mine started in the spring of 94 while working with root balled trees at a landscape co. The day it happened i did not know anything was wrong with my back until the next morning when it was all i could do to get out of bed. The Dr. they sent me to gave me some muscle relaxers & total bed rest then come back in a week. After a week the Dr. sent me for an MRI then to see an orthopedic surgeon who recommended surgery or risk being paralyzed from the waist down. Disk 5 L1 was out & pressing on the sciatic nerve running down my left leg. I put off surgery, got a 2nd opinion, & about a month later went ahead & had the surgery.
At the time it did help but i would still get a ketch like someone had those nerves in there fist twisting & pushing there knuckels into my left but cheek.

[Blackwater]

Well, don't mean to hijack the thread and make it about me, but the surgeon looked at my x-rays and said it was a combination of arthritis and bursitis. I didn't even know you could get bursitis in the hips, but looking back, I guess I should have guessed? My record on self-diagnosis has traditionally been pretty fair, but when it comes to the vertebrae and joints, I've learned that pain in one place may well be due to a problem somewhere else. So I've learned to at least keep an open mind when it comes to these things.

Complicating matters is the fact that my ins. co. seems to be slanted towards non-surgical stop-gap proceedures. I've got an appt. with my GP tomorrow for some sort of injection to see if it'll help. A friend has indicated that they didn't work for him, but have for some others, but with all the wear and tear I've put on mine, I still think surgery's in my future. It's all about when the ins. co. decides to throw in the towel and approve it, I think. It's been years since I could really walk right, now. I've always been one to put off treatment as long as I could. Refused back surgery and got by with a chiropractor for 30 years, but sooner or later, the piper has to be paid. I've earned every pang I've accumulated I know, but it sure doesn't make it any easier to carry knowing that!

This business of gittin' old ain't for the faint of heart or the pessimists! Anybody had the shots? How'd they work for you?

[MaryB]

Your ins co doesn't have the final say, you and your doctor do. If they get balky report them to your state insurance board and watch how fast they approve it.

[Brandi]

I've been dealing with herniated discs in my L4-L5, L5-S1 and now L3-L4 since I was in my mid 20's. That's been about 25 years now. Doc's said they had never seen a case so bad in someone so young in over forty years of practice. I've done it all...chiropractic, physical therapy, steroid injections, radiofrequency neurotomy, surgery (laminectomy, discectomy, and one other that I can't remember at the time). It's literally been a very, very, very long miserable existence. Currently I'm in a pain management program that I've been in for a total of about 5-6 years I think, maybe a bit longer. It's been the only thing that has worked with any degree of success but it's still far from being "good". So listen to your doc, tell them what works and what doesn't. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Always ask about their experience with a procedure they are recommending, you don't want to be a guinea pig for a new doc. Ensure your doc is qualified and listen to them. I've seen a lot of back patients who never got better because they just didn't do what they were told. Anywho, best of luck!!

That said, if I've learned anything, it's that there are no two cases the same so what one person experiences, good or bad, is likely not going to be the same for you. As for the steroid injections, I would say I found relief extremely quickly and it worked great but the problem was, in my case, it just didn't work great for very long. From what I was told, if it's going to work you will likely know pretty soon after having the procedure. My first spinal injection had me feeling great just a day or two afterwards but the pain was back within a week. The doc said that was the case with some folks and I'm just lucky like that. I'd say listen to your doc and do what he/she says because everyone is different.

Without going into a lot of unnecessary detail I will give everyone who's dealt with a chronic permanent issue like this some advice. Don't go all "I'm not filing for Social Security Disability because I can afford to pay my own medical bills and I'm not going to suck off the government teat yadda yadda yadda" on yourself. That's what I did and I ended up losing my job because of the bad back, spent all my money on medical bills, spent my entire retirement on medical bills and normal life bills, lost everything including my vehicle, ended up still in too bad of shape to work (not that any business will hire you with a bad back medical history) and finally ended up basically destitute.

When I finally lost everything and didn't have any money to live on, as in absolutely nothing, and no possibility for income, I went the Social Security Disability route. I was brought up to pay my own way and if I couldn't afford it then I didn't need it so that's what I did. After hiring a lawyer (one of those we only get paid when we win the case types) who was a very well know and highly recommended we jumped through all the hoops to get started. It took almost a year for them to just get to my application, then it took a year and a half wait to get to the court date. We went to court and all seemed good. After 3 months we got a letter saying they wanted another court date. That was almost another year and a half. Finally we did the second court date where I wasn't asked anything different than the first. After that another 3 months wait for the decision letter from the judge. His decision was that yes, he agreed I was permanently disabled and completely unable to work BUT....by his calculations I waited about a year too long before filing the original request for disability and because of that I was "INELIGIBLE" for qualification. So...he says there's no doubt I'm disabled and completely unable to work to make a living but his hands are tied because there's a time limit set by the government and there's nothing he could do about it.

I never heard about any time limit until I got involved with this whole thing but there is. Of course it didn't help that because they pay you from the time that you were first disabled to the time that you are filing in a lump sum and then start paying you a monthly check. In my case, because I waited so long before filing, that lump sum was going to be somewhere around $250,000 and a young federal disability court judge isn't going to get great reviews from his boss for approving that kind of a settlement.

So, for EVERYONE here that is disabled please learn from me and don't make the same mistakes I did. Trust me when I say it's a pretty horrible feeling to know that you will never have a paying job again, you won't have a single penny to your name, you won't be able to even own a car or have your own place to live and for the rest of your life you will have to depend on someone else to just exist. All that on top of the miserable pain you live with every day of your life from your medical issues. If I wasn't fortunate enough to have a sister who took me in and takes care of me I would have either died on the street or just ended it. It's still no picnic, it's a disgusting feeling to see someone else struggling financially because they have to take care of me.

My parents taught me to work for what I wanted and be responsible for myself. I did that, my father died when I was 13 leaving a single mom with four kids and we worked every job that came around even as kids. As an adult I worked hard. I worked every hour of overtime available and often worked 5 ten hour days, one 4 hour day and then off to a second job after I got off the first. All so I could afford the things I needed and occasionally the things I wanted. My work ethic was as strong as they come, I worked myself silly until I couldn't and after all that, this is where I am. So please don't think that services like SSDI are just government handouts for lazy people because at some point far down the road you may just end up in a bad enough physical condition that you can't work at all, permanently, and now you have nothing left to keep you afloat. Don't make the same mistakes I did because the government doesn't care about your situation. Be proactive, don't be me.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Anybody had the shots? How'd they work for you?

When the injections hit the proper target area, I did feel better. Less pain overall, and I didn't need to crutch off my pain meds quite so much. The injections that weren't really in the right place, I didn't get anything from them relief-wise. I'd certainly say yes to giving it the old college try. I would advise not to take a peek at the injection apparatus if you are squeamish though! The numbing agent administered before the cortisone is more discomforting than the actual injection and overall, quite tolerable.

[Blackwater]

Well, I had the injections today. Don't tell anybody, but I have a phobia of needles. Torture devices? No problem. But needles? Then I lose all my macho! But we got throgh it pretty well. Hurt some, but I've had worse. He poked around to find the bursa to put the shot in, and that was the biggest hurt. I'll try the shots, but I told the doc today that I wasn't too optimistic about their working well. He said it should progressively alleviate over the next 5 days, and hopefully, level off there. But even if I get back to "normal," or what serves for it now, I won't be running races any time soon, to say the least! I'm sure surgery is in my future. Sure wouldn't want to get the surgery done while the bursa is still full of inflamation/infection, though! That may be a factor in the surgeon's decision to do this first, too. This gittin' old ain't for sissies!

[MaryB]

Appeal that!!! There is NO time limit to apply, all you have to prove is you were working when the injury started and paying into social security http://www.nickortizlaw.com/is-there...bility-claims/ You can't get back pay past 12 months but you ARE eligible for SSDI! At a minimum you should get SSI which is NOT tied to any earnings record.

I've been dealing with herniated discs in my L4-L5, L5-S1 and now L3-L4 since I was in my mid 20's. That's been about 25 years now. Doc's said they had never seen a case so bad in someone so young in over forty years of practice. I've done it all...chiropractic, physical therapy, steroid injections, radiofrequency neurotomy, surgery (laminectomy, discectomy, and one other that I can't remember at the time). It's literally been a very, very, very long miserable existence. Currently I'm in a pain management program that I've been in for a total of about 5-6 years I think, maybe a bit longer. It's been the only thing that has worked with any degree of success but it's still far from being "good". So listen to your doc, tell them what works and what doesn't. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Always ask about their experience with a procedure they are recommending, you don't want to be a guinea pig for a new doc. Ensure your doc is qualified and listen to them. I've seen a lot of back patients who never got better because they just didn't do what they were told. Anywho, best of luck!!

That said, if I've learned anything, it's that there are no two cases the same so what one person experiences, good or bad, is likely not going to be the same for you. As for the steroid injections, I would say I found relief extremely quickly and it worked great but the problem was, in my case, it just didn't work great for very long. From what I was told, if it's going to work you will likely know pretty soon after having the procedure. My first spinal injection had me feeling great just a day or two afterwards but the pain was back within a week. The doc said that was the case with some folks and I'm just lucky like that. I'd say listen to your doc and do what he/she says because everyone is different.

Without going into a lot of unnecessary detail I will give everyone who's dealt with a chronic permanent issue like this some advice. Don't go all "I'm not filing for Social Security Disability because I can afford to pay my own medical bills and I'm not going to suck off the government teat yadda yadda yadda" on yourself. That's what I did and I ended up losing my job because of the bad back, spent all my money on medical bills, spent my entire retirement on medical bills and normal life bills, lost everything including my vehicle, ended up still in too bad of shape to work (not that any business will hire you with a bad back medical history) and finally ended up basically destitute.

When I finally lost everything and didn't have any money to live on, as in absolutely nothing, and no possibility for income, I went the Social Security Disability route. I was brought up to pay my own way and if I couldn't afford it then I didn't need it so that's what I did. After hiring a lawyer (one of those we only get paid when we win the case types) who was a very well know and highly recommended we jumped through all the hoops to get started. It took almost a year for them to just get to my application, then it took a year and a half wait to get to the court date. We went to court and all seemed good. After 3 months we got a letter saying they wanted another court date. That was almost another year and a half. Finally we did the second court date where I wasn't asked anything different than the first. After that another 3 months wait for the decision letter from the judge. His decision was that yes, he agreed I was permanently disabled and completely unable to work BUT....by his calculations I waited about a year too long before filing the original request for disability and because of that I was "INELIGIBLE" for qualification. So...he says there's no doubt I'm disabled and completely unable to work to make a living but his hands are tied because there's a time limit set by the government and there's nothing he could do about it.

I never heard about any time limit until I got involved with this whole thing but there is. Of course it didn't help that because they pay you from the time that you were first disabled to the time that you are filing in a lump sum and then start paying you a monthly check. In my case, because I waited so long before filing, that lump sum was going to be somewhere around $250,000 and a young federal disability court judge isn't going to get great reviews from his boss for approving that kind of a settlement.

So, for EVERYONE here that is disabled please learn from me and don't make the same mistakes I did. Trust me when I say it's a pretty horrible feeling to know that you will never have a paying job again, you won't have a single penny to your name, you won't be able to even own a car or have your own place to live and for the rest of your life you will have to depend on someone else to just exist. All that on top of the miserable pain you live with every day of your life from your medical issues. If I wasn't fortunate enough to have a sister who took me in and takes care of me I would have either died on the street or just ended it. It's still no picnic, it's a disgusting feeling to see someone else struggling financially because they have to take care of me.

My parents taught me to work for what I wanted and be responsible for myself. I did that, my father died when I was 13 leaving a single mom with four kids and we worked every job that came around even as kids. As an adult I worked hard. I worked every hour of overtime available and often worked 5 ten hour days, one 4 hour day and then off to a second job after I got off the first. All so I could afford the things I needed and occasionally the things I wanted. My work ethic was as strong as they come, I worked myself silly until I couldn't and after all that, this is where I am. So please don't think that services like SSDI are just government handouts for lazy people because at some point far down the road you may just end up in a bad enough physical condition that you can't work at all, permanently, and now you have nothing left to keep you afloat. Don't make the same mistakes I did because the government doesn't care about your situation. Be proactive, don't be me.

[MaryB]

Needles don't bother me, I watched them stick a 8" long large bore needle in from the front up under the collar bone to get a dye injection into the shoulder space for an MRI.

Well, I had the injections today. Don't tell anybody, but I have a phobia of needles. Torture devices? No problem. But needles? Then I lose all my macho! But we got throgh it pretty well. Hurt some, but I've had worse. He poked around to find the bursa to put the shot in, and that was the biggest hurt. I'll try the shots, but I told the doc today that I wasn't too optimistic about their working well. He said it should progressively alleviate over the next 5 days, and hopefully, level off there. But even if I get back to "normal," or what serves for it now, I won't be running races any time soon, to say the least! I'm sure surgery is in my future. Sure wouldn't want to get the surgery done while the bursa is still full of inflamation/infection, though! That may be a factor in the surgeon's decision to do this first, too. This gittin' old ain't for sissies!

[Blackwater]

You're more of a man than I am, then, Mary! I guess everybody's got some kind of chink in their armor - some soft spot where they're weak? That's just mine, I guess. The shots are taking away much of the pain now, but I still walk kind'a funny. I'm pretty sure hip surgery is in my future, and part of me wants it so I can get out and about so much better, providing of course the surgery goes well, which is never assured, but it getting awfully good now. It's tough for a fella' who used to be a perpetual motion machine to deal with not being able to get out and about like I'll always want to, but my GP doc is now in a wheel chair, and says it's permanent now.

He's always been a near world-class runner, and health nut, and really great all around guy and doc, but he's got something that basically amounts to permanent vertigo. Saw him yesterday and he was just as cheerful as anyone you'd ever want to meet. He'd fallen twice in the prior week, and dislocated one of his fingers, and cracked a couple of ribs, but was still cheerful. Like me, he's looking at it like the wheelchair is proof that he's still here and in the game and making significant contributions. He had to stand to give me the shots, and had to have two pretty strong nurses to help watch that he didn't fall again to do it. He's got great touch skills, even with the vertigo, and did the shots as good as probably could be expected.

He's a real profile in courage and faith, and I'm very glad he's my GP. He looks at his patients as someone he can probably help, not as dollar signs or a "burden" he has to carry. Not that many docs like him left, it seems. Cynicism and pessimism are just not in his heart or vocabulary. He's a real trooper, and an inspiration to many of his patients I'm sure.

We'll see where it all leads. Gary, my doc, is always in my prayers, and I'm sure I and all his other patients are always in his. It really doesn't get much better than that.