25 Straight wall case

[oldred]

A buddy of mine called me with an idea for something different but I could not come up with a thing to help him out, he is thinking along the lines of a 25 in a rimmed straight wall case for a light weight 22 RF style rifle. Except for the very hard to obtain and expen$ive 25 Stevens extra long cases we came up with nothing that such a case could be derived from. Any ideas on this?

The idea would be for a rimmed straight walled 25 caliber about the same length and loaded to about the same pressures as a 22 Magnum RF. After the recent effort, failed effort, of trying to come up with a 22 magnum center fire type case I am a bit leery of getting involved in something that is going to require extraordinary measures to successfully do but if this is feasible without going to extremes I might get involved and see what can be done.

[Mugs]

Do a search for a 25 Hornet.

Mugs

[oldred]

Do a search for a 25 Hornet.

Mugs

That was my first suggestion when he called but he says the 25 Hornet is not really a straight wall, I don't know much about them but just looking at the pics they look close except slightly tapered.

[dtknowles]

That was my first suggestion when he called but he says the 25 Hornet is not really a straight wall, I don't know much about them but just looking at the pics they look close except slightly tapered.

Does he say why it matters? He is right but it is a distinction without a difference.

Tim

[Jedman]

I can't think of a CF case you could use. A 25 ACP is semi rimless and about .007 to small at the head diameter. If he could make if a 27 cal the 270 REN is kinda ideal.

Jedman

[labradigger1]

I think 25-21 is straight wall (ish)

[Chev. William]

Are you willing to Reform cases to get a Straight Wall Case of suitable length?

If so check out threads on Lengthened .25ACP designs, 6.35x32mmSR, 6.35x26mmSR (similar to the .22WMR in lengths but of .25ACP diameters), 6.35x28.6mmSR (similar to .25 Stevens RF in dimensions but CF).

Thread Title: " .250/.257 Cartridges to .25ACP/.25 Stevens Diameters from 5.7x28mm once fired brass."

Also a Case Swaged down To.276" Diameter from A .22 Hornet (all The way to the Rim top) should yield a Raw case of about 1.380" length.

The Information on the swaging process is contained in this thread: "reloadable .32 rimfire brass"

A Photo of a completed Ruger Single Eight with a .25ACP barrel and a Pair (to date) of cylinders is posted in the Thread on its development and includes a long cartridge made from Swaged down Brass.

Thread title: "My Ruger "Single Eight" in ".25ACP+" vs "Handloader" .250 Magnum Auto."

It IS some Work and expense but it is Doable by a Retired 73 year old on Social Security.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[oldred]

Wow, looks like I am way late with this one! Don't know how I missed all that before but it sure answers a lot of questions, I already have some of those cases and forming tools that could be modified from my ill-fated 22 Mag CF effort. Too much time and work required for me to fit into my schedule but I will pass on this info and the left over components to the fellow that brought this up and see what he can make with it. I probably got really close to that before but I was going for a smaller diameter, this looks to be much more feasible.

[Chev. William]

It seems Many people "Shy Away" from Thinking of 'Process Needed to Attain Desired Results' if they haven't Any Real Experience in "old Style Manufacturing" Techniques.

Sometimes Things Can be done That Don't appear Possible at first Glance.

"Swaging Was A Process I witnessed In High School Metal Shop and the Idea Stayed With me through My Employed Life.
I do admit to Initial Failures of Swaging attempts but That is Life in the "Learning Lane".

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Eutectic]

A .25 Hornet could be made as just a tapered (non bottlenecked) case if desired..... Think of a miniature .32-40 for an example......

Both .25-21 and .25-25 Stevens have a "straight" case; albeit fairly generous body taper.

Eutectic

[John Boy]

Here's the process I use to make 25 Stevens reloads:
* Trim 1.403 length on 22 Hornets down to 1.130
* Run 22 Hornet brass in a 25 Hornet FL sizing die - to reduce the web
* Run the cases into a 25 Hornet Expander die to expand the case just past the shoulder
* Re-run the cases back into a 25 Hornet FL sizing die
* Fireform the brass
* Trim brass to 1.125, the case length of a 25 Stevens
* Reloaded with either 7-8-9grs BP (original BP charge 10-11grs) and 3-4grs of 2400 smokeless using the Lyman 257420 - 72gr bullet
Results that the reloads drop into the chamber with ease

[Chev. William]

Beautiful Idea John Boy.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

* Run 22 Hornet brass in a 25 Hornet FL sizing die - to reduce the web

Would that be "Run .22 Hornet brass in a .25 Stevens FL sizing die"? I can't see that the die for .25 Hornet as usually constituted would reduce the web. Otherwise your process sounds exactly right.

I suspect that his main reason for wanting something different is wanting something different. The standard .25 Hornet or standard .270 REN both seem just as good in a new rifle. You would be sure of a relatively inexpensive chamber reamer and dies for the former of these, and partly sure for the latter. A cheap 7mm. engineer's reamer drilled with a carbide drill to insert a pilot could make a good chambering reamer for the .25 version, possibly with a very slight taper produced by polishing, and perhaps the same with a M letter reamer would do the same for the REN.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_...er_drill_sizes

[Chev. William]

In my experience in reforming Cases by Swaging, I have found the Lee Precision Made .25ACP Carbide Ring Sizing dies have a entry radius and slight taper from Mouth To final sizing diameter that will allow Swaging a .22 Hornet Case, if Forced to bring The top of the Rim to the Bottom of the Carbide ring, to about .276" diameter about .300" above the Base of The Case and taper to about .280" diameter about .100" above the Base with a "roll" of displaced Brass forming a radius Fillet between top of Rim and the Wall of the Case. I have not attempted to measure the radius as I just turn the "roll" off with a sharp point Carbide Lathe tool to recover the original square corner for the Rim to Wall transition.

In Swaging down The diameter of the Base Web, I find I can support the primer Pocket Diameter and Length with a properly spaced "RCBS Primer Pocket Swaging Kit" Small Primer Swaging Punch. I use the "Stripper Cup" of the Kit with an added 3/16" nominal I.D. Fender Washer Taped to the top, which positions the punch to maintain the original Small Pistol primer Pocket Depth in the Reformed Case.

Additionally, the Flash Hole seems to reduce in diameter with the Swaging Process so I drill them out again with a 5/64" Drill Bit, then deburr Both inside and outside hole edges.

Note: As the Inside of the Case wall is tapered as it nears The Base Web, you will need to machine a long Pin Punch to 'clear' both the Wall to web transition and the I.D. of the sizing die to use to force the Formed case out of the sizing die.

Best Regards,
Chev. William