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Thread: KNO3 + Aluminum powder [homemade Blackpowder substitute]?

  1. #1
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    KNO3 + Aluminum powder [homemade Blackpowder substitute]?

    Anyone has experience with KNO3 + Aluminum powder [homemade Blackpowder substitute]?
    Anyone knows if it works making homemade Blackpowder Substitute with KNO3(potassium nitrate) + Aluminum powder?

    I failed with classic BP receipt and want to see if KNO3 + Aluminum powder mixed in ball mill will work nice and how smokeless it is for 9mm, 38 spl and 357 Magnum reloads.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    It would be easier to just step in front of a bus.
    The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

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    Skipper, any feedback on why this isn't in someone's best interests?

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    Boolit Master
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    I would be interested in seeing if anyone has tried KNO3+Al as well. However, I think troubleshooting your BP attempt would be very worthwhile. Without knowing anything else, if you are using a ball mill I would say try a different charcoal. If you are not ball milling, get a ball mill.

    Another thing you could try is KNO3+sugar. I did that and it worked first try, even without iron oxide.

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    have a ball mill (home made). Works fine.

    I talked to an chemist and he told me worst Idea is sugar. Has too much oxigen. As well charcoal is bad idea since it did not work for him eigther (local charcoas has too much oxigen). Might work with activated carbon used for cleaning water. As well adding some metallic powder he suggested. I did not have time yet so i ask you.
    Meanwhile I started reloading scavenging shotshells for powder and lead for reloading 9mm. Scavenging shotshells at least gets me smokeless powder. Better would be to user Commercial powders but I am located in Southamerica and there powder is not availlable.
    If I can duplicate semi smokeless powder with KNO3 (availlable as fertilizer) and Aluminum powder (commercially availlable as well) then I can create my own powder (and do not Need to bring it from the USA).
    I figured just to scavenge shotshells since it seemed much safer to me as playing with unstable home made powders and sudden blow somethin up when ball milling did not get same consistency from Batch to Batch and who knows the stability of the "home made powder".

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    Boolit Master
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    What you're suggesting is a flash powder mixture. I certainly think that this mix in a ball mill is a very bad idea. Nitrate and carbon ( charcoal ) might work.
    Take a look at the reaction products; blasting aluminum oxide, a very abrasive compound through a gun barrel is not a good idea.
    Last edited by Skipper; 08-01-2016 at 02:34 AM.
    The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I think if you research a bit more you will find that flash powder has less Oomph than holy black, less push. But it has much more speed, will tend to shatter things.

    Not what I would choose to put below a lead ball.

    And if you put the 2 together in your ball mill and let it run you may just turn your ball mill into an improvised clay-more mine.

    I would not do that at all.

    Take finely powder KNO3 and Aluminum powder, using very small quantities mix carefully not using anything that can cause a spark.

    Used to make firecrackers and reports this is wicked stuff.

    I have seen a video of a 1 gallon ziplock bag of this ignited inside an outhouse.

    The outhouse vaporizes. Bang, poof, smoke, dust, scraps of lumber, no outhouse.

    BE CAREFULL!

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    Boolit Master
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    What failed with your black powder trial?
    The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

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    Your recipe, as has been stated already, is for flash powder. I'd expect your gun to grenade in your hand if you attempted to use the flash powder as a propellant.
    8500' Wet Mountain Valley, Colorado

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    Boolit Buddy ofitg's Avatar
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    You might want to consider a mixture of KNO3 and sugar - an expedient method of preparation is presented in page 26 of this old Army publication -

    http://www.survivalcentral.net/wp-co...tions-army.pdf

    One of our forum members - Perotter - has tried this stuff and reports that the performance is comparable to black powder.

    A few years back, a similar mixture called "Sannadex" was marketed as a black powder substitute in South Africa.
    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."

    - Thomas Jefferson


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    I would be more inclined to follow a recipe from this site that has been tested and retested by all the expert black powder makers here than listen to a local chemist that has been thought to poo poo anything but commercially produced product. the sugar powders have been around for a long time and are proven to work. if you can get the fertilizer and sugar locally and then make your own willow charcoal you have everything needed to make good black powder, if you really don't want to use sugar there has to be a supply of sulfur around somewhere.

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    The time-tested formulas and methods discussed on this forum in several threads can be expected to produce Black Powder the equal of commercially available. Adding other ingredients such as aluminum powder will produce what is used for fireworks and have unintended results. Sugar was used to replace the carbon (charcoal) , but not in addition to it.
    As in all endeavors, the quality of the powder is directly related to the quality of the ingredients and methods used.
    This is rocket science and should be done only by those who thoroughly understand the principals and safety requirements.
    Above all, if experimenting, do so only in very small batches to minimize the size of any accidents.
    I'm not saying don't try it, but rather learn from other's experience and mistakes. To do otherwise is an invitation for either failure or disaster.
    Information not shared. is wasted.

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    Dear ofitg,

    You have awakened my interest in making black powder Substitute.

    I took the KNO3 from an open bag of fertilizer (exposed to humidity several months) and yes I tried as well sugar as charcoal Substitute. It never worked well. The burn rate got never quick enough, not even Close to YouTube Videos.

    Can you foreward me an receipe for KNO3 and sugar? By the way the link of the Manual does not work (pdf does not load).

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy ofitg's Avatar
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    AJG, does this link work for you?

    http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/a...psvklnwckw.png
    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."

    - Thomas Jefferson


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    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I believe this is your problem.

    "I took the KNO3 from an open bag of fertilizer (exposed to humidity several months)"

    First, start with real, pure KN03. Not some ammonium nitrate that has been exposed to weather.
    There are good locations to find this where it is not expensive. Also I believe that many tree root pellets are essentially KNO3, some with a lye coating, some without.

    But if you want a good product, start with good materials.

    The only time I ever bought any I used Ebay and it made perfectly acceptable rc candy, ie Rocketfuel.
    Also was a great smoke producer.

    Pair that up with some good charcoal and I suspect you will have a better result.

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    I managed to open the pdf file.

    However there are Posts who say KNO3+SUGAR IS NEVER WORKING FOR RELOADING. So I wonder if homemade blackpowder is really working for 38 spl 357 mag and 9mm. Or if it is a "Internet lie from ninja commandos on Internet".

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    The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJG View Post
    .......Can you foreward me an receipe for KNO3 and sugar? By the way the link of the Manual does not work (pdf does not load).
    65% KN03 and 35% Glucose = Rocket candy.

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  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy ofitg's Avatar
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    AJG, did you research "Sannadex"? You have to be sure that you are using potassium nitrate, not ammonium nitrate.

    I doubt that blackpowder (or Sannadex) would give good performance in a small 9mm case.

    Here's an interesting video for you - Philippinos loading a homemade gun with the heads of safety matches -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFDeh9QsbTI

    The match heads have a mixture of potassium chlorate (in the range of 40-50% KClO3) - but the Philippinos included the short pieces of wood inside the mixture, which would "dilute" the effect.

    If you scrape the powder off the wood, the powder will be significantly stronger than blackpowder.
    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."

    - Thomas Jefferson


  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofitg View Post
    AJG, did you research "Sannadex"? You have to be sure that you are using potassium nitrate, not ammonium nitrate.

    I doubt that blackpowder (or Sannadex) would give good performance in a small 9mm case.

    Here's an interesting video for you - Philippinos loading a homemade gun with the heads of safety matches -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFDeh9QsbTI

    The match heads have a mixture of potassium chlorate (in the range of 40-50% KClO3) - but the Philippinos included the short pieces of wood inside the mixture, which would "dilute" the effect.

    If you scrape the powder off the wood, the powder will be significantly stronger than blackpowder.
    heres the deal.i have made bp two different ways.mill it with kno3 sulfur and charcoal and the cia method where you heat the kno3 in water to light boil and then add the sulfur and charcoal stir it all together and mix in some denatured alcohol stir and let cool when cool squeeze through rag to get the moisture out and then granulate. i prefer to ball mill for a min of 3hrs rather than the cia method.now the charcoal.charcoal as well as other ingredients need to be fine as dust when introduced in the mill for best results.hardwood char makes good bp,pine and balsa also make very good bp. The charachteristics of the burning wood carry on through the charcoal heres an example of burning speed. hardwood ok.pine faster.and balsa extremely fast not saying that hardwood wont make good bp but it needs to be milled longer.make sure you have good quality kno3 and not ammonium nitrate.whan milling you want your jar at least half full of brass or lead only nothing else that could cause a spark and do not fill the mill with comp as it needs to roll around and get smasher into the other ingredients if you use this method and your bp is not satisfactory you need to mill longer.If you get to the point where your bp is satisfactory (poof when u light it) then you will wanna press pucks and granulate to the size you want.it sounds difficult but it is not

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