Asking opinions on .224 P.P.

[wmitty]

I'm using the Lee .225-55-RF design to p.p. simply because the mould was relatively cheap, as am I. The boolits drop .227" - .228" as cast and I'm not sizing them to bore diameter but am wet wrapping them as cast and then sizing them in a Lyman .225 die in the Lyman 45 sizer w/o lubing them. I've unwrapped a couple and miked the driving bands and they're consistently .222" which is .003" over bore dia. of the .22-250 I'm going to try them in. The wrapped, sized boolits are miking .226" and are a twist fit in the case necks of fired brass.

My question is: With the core being roughly .003" over bore dia. , is their any chance of accuracy with these booilts? The rifles being used are accurate with both j-words and the naked boolits I've run thru them.

[runfiverun]

you want some engagement of the core and the rifling, so it's worth a try.

I'd still be trying to wrap the first one, glad it's you.

[wmitty]

I managed to damage the patches on a number of boolits as they were being sized in the Lyman die. I obviously need to go with a push thru die for sizing the patched boolits. I tried twisting the tails on about 25 and folding the tails under on ten or so; with the rest being patched with the length cut short to leave the gas check shank covered on the sides but not the bottom. I'm trying to find an easy way to patch these; so far it has not become apparent. The fifty some odd I managed to patch took a couple hours of tedious work. If anyone knows of an easy method to p.p. boolits this small, I'd sure be interested in hearing your comments.

[runfiverun]

might wanna try a cigarette roller.

[barrabruce]

might wanna try a cigarette roller.

Plus tweezers
and Magnifying glass
Plenty of light and contrasting background.

Wow one large 45 0r 50 cal bullet and a single sheet of paper ought to keep you entertained and off the streets for hrs.

Who said reloading and shooting weren't cheap.

[Oyeboten]

I will soon be Paper Patching .257 Boolits, so...I will be finding out how much fun this is also.

Are you getting any grief with the Sizing Die tearing the paper off or tearing off part of it?

[Old Coot]

Do yourselves a favor and FIRST SIZE THE CORE TO .001 TO .003 OVER BORE DIAMETER. Now that we have cleared that up. 1. A push through sizer will be kinder to your patches. 2. Patch the core so that it fills the throat of the chamber, or just fits inside the neck of a fired case. 3. Don't size your cases. Decap, prime, powder, and seat the patched bullet. This is the road to best accuracy. 4. For speeds under 2,000 fps. you can use pure lead bullet cores. For speeds over 2,000 you need a harder alloy. Air Cooled Wheel Weights, or WW and Pure lead, or Lyman #2, or whatever, we do this stuff so we can experiment. That is why we do it. If all we wanted to do was shoot or hunt we would buy the ammo.

Remember that it is fun. Have fun and find the sweet spot in your rifle for this discipline.
Good Luck\
Brodie

[Digital Dan]

Do yourselves a favor and FIRST SIZE THE CORE

We have a winner!!!!

[Old Coot]

Oyeboten,
If you have not patched before, let me give you some quick tips:
1.Wet the paper.
2. Lay the patch out about half of it on your board . 3, Lay your wet cut patch about half on your patching board. 4. Place your bullet on the patch. 5. Pick up the loose end of the patch and lay it across the bullet so that the patch is completely against the bullet. 6. Now place your finger on the patch and bullet and Roll them through until all the paper is on the bullet.
7. Either twist the tail CAREFULLY or holding the bullet at a 45 degree angle to the board put the base of the bullet against the patching surface and slowly rotate it. This will fold and roll the excess patch material into a cone over the base of the bullet. 8. Now stand the bullet upright in a tray (plastic ammo boxes work well for larger bullets) until it dries. 9. If the tail is twisted cut off with a pair of dykes at the base. IF folded do no more. 10. If you need to size the bullets lube with Johnson's Paste Wax or some similar product. 11. Size to throat dimensions in a push through sizer. Noe's set up is by far the least expensive, and works very well for me.
Good Luck
Brodie

[Oyeboten]

Oyeboten,
If you have not patched before, let me give you some quick tips:
1.Wet the paper.
2. Lay the patch out about half of it on your board . 3, Lay your wet cut patch about half on your patching board. 4. Place your bullet on the patch. 5. Pick up the loose end of the patch and lay it across the bullet so that the patch is completely against the bullet. 6. Now place your finger on the patch and bullet and Roll them through until all the paper is on the bullet.
7. Either twist the tail CAREFULLY or holding the bullet at a 45 degree angle to the board put the base of the bullet against the patching surface and slowly rotate it. This will fold and roll the excess patch material into a cone over the base of the bullet. 8. Now stand the bullet upright in a tray (plastic ammo boxes work well for larger bullets) until it dries. 9. If the tail is twisted cut off with a pair of dykes at the base. IF folded do no more. 10. If you need to size the bullets lube with Johnson's Paste Wax or some similar product. 11. Size to throat dimensions in a push through sizer. Noe's set up is by far the least expensive, and works very well for me.
Good Luck
Brodie

Sounds good, thank you!

[yeahbub]

wmitty,
As long as they seat in the throat, the answer is yes, I think you're good to head for the range and see what they'll do. The .222 diameter you mention will provide greater mechanical engagement with the rifling, adding to the “grip” of the patch texture on the core from sizing. One possible fly in the ointment could be boolit setback while chambering, but this will depend on sufficient neck tension. I prefer enough neck-tension to be able to feel resistance on bolt closure, and for that I neck-size my cases. I usually skip crimping with PP on all but tubular magazines. You don’t mention what you plan to lube them with, but I have found good lube to have a salutary effect on accuracy. I haven’t had the time to try the NRA method of aerosol teflon on the patch from some years ago, but I’m not shooting 1000 yard competitions either. Maybe someday.

Many PP aficionados prefer bore diameter cores or close and they seem to get very good results that way. Most of the molds I patch are conventional designs, and like you, I patch as-cast and size to throat diameter without negative results. There are a couple I would happily use in competition, the rest are mostly hunt-worthy, and a few need work. YMMV.

Good luck!

[barrabruce]

I have found good lube to have a salutary effect on accuracy


For me
Little is best/Most is less

[yeahbub]

Quite right, Barrabruce. The little that can be rubbed into the patch material seems to be sufficient. For a while, I played with using the edge of a 6" scale to roll the patch into the lube grooves and lubing as I sized them in the Lyman. They sure looked spiffy, but for all the extra attention to detail it made no discernible difference on target. I went back to rubbing them on a block of 541 beeswax/veg shortening/canola and calling it good. My experiences with unlubed patches hasn't been good, but as long as I can feel the lube on the patch, it's enough.

[Old Coot]

Oyeboten, Lubing the patches after they dry is always a good idea unless you are trying to smooth out a rough finished bore, or shine up a dark bore. Omitting the lube will speed up those actions. Any paste wax will work pretty well just get some on your fingers and rub the dried bullet with it. Lubed paper patched bullets will shoot a lot cooler than un-lubed. \

When you go to patch those itty bitty bullets use a pair of forceps (tweezers) to pick up the patch end and lay across the bullet. I know a lot about working with tiny stuff. I was once a transmission electron -microscopist. Brodie