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Thread: 357AR (Max-Rimless) AR15

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    I keep reading this post and I think to myself....me want...me want...

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    The standard extension are threaded 13/16"-16tpi, around .620" long. There are some different thread pitches for some of the big bores and the WSSM barrels. There are several different feed ramps though. Really no one step of making an ar15 barrel is very hard. If you chamber and headspace before you finish profiling it is actually very forgiving of any chambering mistakes. On a manual machine it is still a bit of time just standing/sitting there watching metal peel off. Ideally the gas port should be in a groove, but since only the top barrel makers do that and I am no where near shooting up to a Krieger or similar barrels potential I just drill them and figure I'm in the same company as the majority of barrels out there.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master

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    Moleman, what weight of buffer and buffer spring was used?
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

    Last of the original Group Buy Honcho's.

    "Dueling should have never been made illegal in this country. It settled lots of issues between folks."- Char-Gar

  4. #24
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    Great post, Moleman! Very thorough! Only question I have is do the cases, after trimming, need to be inside neck reamed in order to fit consistently? My .30 Herret taught me about the variation of wall thickness in different makes of brass, and I luckily found an inside neck reamer setup for it that eliminated any problem with any brass. I know milspec brass tends to be a bit thicker, so was wondering if this affects loading the shortened .223 cases?

  5. #25
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Hamish, they've all used either standard rifle or carbine springs and buffers.
    Blackwater, I do either turn or ream the cases. There is a thread in the case forming area that was linked to earlier in the thread. I had tried fire forming and had more cases not needing reamed, but the expanders are quicker and less messy

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    Moleman - Thanks for posting - have you suppressed it or tried subsonic loads in it yet?
    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamish View Post
    I smell a Group Buy for barrels if there's a way to pull it off while keeping the completed barrel cost down.
    I want one. I'd started thinking on this a couple months ago, went searching and truly, NOTHING is new under the sun. That's ok because I'd rather have someone smarter than me (nearly anybody) make it work.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Artful, haven't tried subsonic yet. I do have a silencerco hybrid that I bought with that in mind. I'd like to find a good heavy mold with a decent roundish profile that feeds well before messing around with it suppressed. I've got a Lyman and a mp bookmarked that I'll likely order one or the other soon when I get the "hey, what do you want for your birthday" question. So far the only lead bullets I've tried have been NOE and Lee 208grams wfn which shoot okay, but chamber slowly from the blunt tips. They shoot better single loaded, so a more rounded tip should help some. I've been pushing them just over 1800fps with a gas check. Still debating what is going to be a good profile for deer.
    Last edited by Moleman-; 04-02-2017 at 05:59 AM.

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moleman- View Post
    I'd like to find a good heavy mold with a decent roundish profile that feeds well before messing around with it suppressed.

    So far the only lead bullets I've tried have been NOE and Lee 208grams wfn which shoot okay, but chamber slowly from the blunt tips. They shoot better single loaded, so a more rounded tip should help some.

    Still debating what is going to be a good profile for deer.
    How much can stick past the case before you run out of room to get it into your magazine? How heavy can you go comfortably? I might be able to find something on had that will work for you.

    Ranch Dog 180 grain



    Ranch Dog 190 grain


    NOE 220 grain



    222 grain Loverin NEI


    280 grain NOE


    Actually I have not cast with this one yet
    NOE 360-228-FN XCB

    But it might fit the bill
    Last edited by Artful; 04-02-2017 at 08:44 AM.
    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

  10. #30
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    I looked at several of those molds, but the now 220 and especially the 228 grain molds look like they would work best. I'm in Arizona till Saturday so I don't have access to my load data. Pointy bullets like the Hornady 180ssp can be loaded out to 2.26" but the more blunt the profile the shorter the col even if there is room to be loaded out longer. You may also have to find a sweet spot for what feeds well vs what is best for ideal accuracy. The 158 and 180 xtp have the same profile and feed best when loaded to the front band on the 180s even though they'll chamber on the rear band. Since they are basically straight cylinders the cartridge base needs to be clear of the feed lips on the mag before they start straightening out to chamber. I think I'm loading the 208noe flat tips to 2.15" and about the same for 200gr Speer rn. Xtps are around 1.95".

  11. #31
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Artful, I'm looking really hard at the 228gr NOE mold http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...b7j7e3rkl7ftn1 but wonder if it's just going to poke a clean hole through a deer. I tried the first BRI 12ga sabot slugs back in the 80's and the accuracy was great from a rifled barrel. Although hits on deer looked like you took a 1/2" cookie cutter and made a hole in the deer with very little shock radiating out. Only ever used them on one deer before going back to foster style slugs for the next 25 years. I'm also looking at this hp mold http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...b7j7e3rkl7ftn1 but think it's going to be too far the other way. Wish there was one in between. Has anyone shot deer with either one, and if so how did they perform?

  12. #32
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    You could always put your own hollow point in a solid

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/37...ow-pointer-1-8


    The Forster Universal Hollow Pointer is ideal for a shooter or reloader looking to drill hollow cavities in the noses of cast bullets on loaded rounds of ammunition. Hollow point depth is controlled by setting the stop collar of the case trimmer. A short or long case trimmer base might be necessary for very short or long rounds. Not for use on jacketed bullets. Case trimmer sold separately.


    You can make your own with just a block of wood drilled for size of boolit then cut a slit in the block and put in a vice on the drill press, then choose your own diameter drill bit.
    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

  13. #33
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Ordered the Noe http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...b7j7e3rkl7ftn1 and sent them a message if they had something similar in .432" for my 44x1.6 (like a rimless 445SM) and 44x1.8" (44 version of the raptor).

  14. #34
    Boolit Master kingstrider's Avatar
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    Hmm this is very interesting, had not heard of this cartridge before.
    Keep moving forward!

  15. #35
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Mold came in today. Looks great, handles look good. Did order the wrench and sprue plate lube which wasn't in the package. I'm guessing it's just 2cycle oil? Hope to cast a few soon and try them out.

  16. #36
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    Follow AL's directions about heat cycling and you shouldn't have any problems.

    I need to get to casting as I'm almost out of stuff to play with except J-words

    But trying to get my Form 1 can settled is becoming a pain.
    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

  17. #37
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Cast a few bullets Monday and tried them out. The lead in my pot is way too soft of an alloy to run in an ar15 as fast as I want to, but figured it would allow for a bit of feeding testing. I have three different lengths of free bore out of the rifles and pistols in this chambering. Too long, too short and a compromise. Went with the one in the middle. Still had to seat the bullets fairly deep to keep from touching the rifling. Only tried them in one rifle, but they were hanging up making the transition from tilted in the mag to straight. If the alloy is too soft it will cause it to hang up a bit. Often changing the COL a bit will make a difference as will shortening the feed lips on the mags. So a little bit of playing around will be needed. Won't do that though until I change out the lead in the pot.

  18. #38
    Boolit Buddy
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    I can't stop thinking about this. Would love to get a group buy for barrels..

  19. #39
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    cartridge base needs to be clear of the feed lips on the mag before they start straightening out to chamber A point so many miss.
    Whatever!

  20. #40
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Popper, a lot of guys skim over this and don't understand its importance. It's likely compounded by not being needed for all bullet shapes and COL's. It is also easy to mistake it for a feed ramp or chamber mouth issue when the real problem is the feed lips on the mags being too long. A guy on another site was having issues and glossed over the suggestion to shorten the feed lips a bit saying afterwards he had "modified the mags". We were running out of suggestions when I asked again about how much he'd trimmed off the magazine feed lips. Turns out he hadn't as they had fed 223 just fine. Once the feed lips were trimmed back a bit it started feeding. It's just another technique you can use when asking a gun to chamber something it wasn't designed for.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check