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Thread: 357AR (Max-Rimless) AR15

  1. #81
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    I haven't shot any cast ones lighter than the 208gr shown in post #49 and lately have mostly been shooting the 228gr NOE shown in the same post. Speeds 1700-1900's with gas checks and Lyman alox #2857277 stick lube. Usually hovering around 1"-1.5" which I'm good with. I seem to get smaller groups slower than with faster, but I usually go with what cycles the gun good and gives the best accuracy. I wonder if the plain base is getting distorted by the gas port and causing the groups to open up. Just wondering, never used powder coated bullets but I know if I push my plain base 9x19 DI loads too hot I'll get lead on the bolt tail. But the gas port is very close to the chamber on it.

  2. #82
    Boolit Master
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    Prior to PC, finding a gun that would shoot boolits with no leading and ok accuracy at 1700 fps with a plain base would have been a good find.

    I may or may not have maxed out for good accuracy with the 180 plain base. I do plan to keep at it to see if I can both find better accuracy at the current speed and to see what kind of groups I can get at higher speeds.

    I am pondering the merging the beverage can check concept with my forming operation to just to see if it would make a difference.

    I also need to find a "sweet spot" with my 200s.

    If you want to play with some "made for 357AR" boolits, I could send you a batch. Your only cost would be a good faith effort to use them and report results.
    Last edited by P Flados; 02-23-2019 at 12:59 AM.

  3. #83
    Boolit Master
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    It has been a while since I posted here, but not because I have been idle.

    Although I found that the 180 shoots pretty good out to 100 yards (1900 fps / 1.5 moa), groups at 200 yards have been closer to 6 moa.

    I started working on 202s but had mixed results. With my current powder (WC 680 - same as 1680), the case is right at 100% load density. I found that my mixed brass was giving me vertical stringing even with weight sorting the brass.

    I made up a bunch of converted brass from one batch of PMC headstamp, and results improved. I got good 100 yard groups with the 202s at 2030 fps with no pierced primers. When pushed to 2070 fps, they still shot good, but I got some flat / pierced primers.

    I did some 200 yard shooting today with loads where I tried to split the difference on pressure. I still got some piercing, so I think I will call it around 2050 fps (no chrono today). I was happy with the sub 4" group with the 202s at 200 yards even with significant wind gusts.

    I will try to increase the OAL just enough to eliminate the pierced primers. Another 0.010" - 0.020" should do it.

    Another neat thing was bullet impact. Currently I am about 1.5" high at 50, 2" high at 100 and dead on at 200. I think I will dial down a couple of clicks to get 1.5" high at 100 and 1" low at 200.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #84
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by P Flados View Post
    It has been a while since I posted here, but not because I have been idle.

    Although I found that the 180 shoots pretty good out to 100 yards (1900 fps / 1.5 moa), groups at 200 yards have been closer to 6 moa.

    I started working on 202s but had mixed results. With my current powder (WC 680 - same as 1680), the case is right at 100% load density. I found that my mixed brass was giving me vertical stringing even with weight sorting the brass.

    I made up a bunch of converted brass from one batch of PMC headstamp, and results improved. I got good 100 yard groups with the 202s at 2030 fps with no pierced primers. When pushed to 2070 fps, they still shot good, but I got some flat / pierced primers.

    I did some 200 yard shooting today with loads where I tried to split the difference on pressure. I still got some piercing, so I think I will call it around 2050 fps (no chrono today). I was happy with the sub 4" group with the 202s at 200 yards even with significant wind gusts.

    I will try to increase the OAL just enough to eliminate the pierced primers. Another 0.010" - 0.020" should do it.

    Another neat thing was bullet impact. Currently I am about 1.5" high at 50, 2" high at 100 and dead on at 200. I think I will dial down a couple of clicks to get 1.5" high at 100 and 1" low at 200.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	200gr2moa2000fps.jpg 
Views:	40 
Size:	23.6 KB 
ID:	238889
    I mentioned this in the other thread, but wind could be messing with you at 200. That group is almost a classic "weather report" group . It shows the angled aspect that I mentioned.

    I worked this up on the 180 Single Shot Pistol bullet at 2000 fps, it shows the deviation from just a 2mph wind at 200 yards



    Bill
    Both ends WHAT a player

  5. #85
    Boolit Master

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    There is actually a discipline for plain based cast bullet shooting.

    https://www.castbulletassoc.org/benchrest-rules

    5.5 Plain Base Bullet Class - Any rifle meeting the requirements of 5.4 (Unrestricted Rifle) may be used in the Plain Base Bullet (no metallic gas checks) Class. The Plain Base Bullet Class does not prevent the use of plain base bullets in other classes. Breech seating is allowed.

    As I recall one thing allowed was a wad under the bullet, some used one punched from plastic milk jugs.

    Looks like the 200 yard aggregate record for five 5 shot groups is .903" not far behind the other stuff that allows gas checks
    Both ends WHAT a player

  6. #86
    Boolit Master
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    Depending on angle, wind causes both horizontal and vertical POI shifting.

    Wind has been very much a concern and I really want to get out on a calm day.

    I am retired now which helps. The outdoor range I go to is closed Monday & Tuesday and too crowded on the weekends so I get three possible shooting days a week. I use the "Windfinder" App that will forecast a week out and I watch for good shooting days. However, I have not had a calm shooting day since before I had loads that needed 200 yard shooting.

  7. #87
    Boolit Bub Mike in MD's Avatar
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    Going to re - re - resurrect this thread. I've been watching from day one. Back then I decided to go .357 max in an Encore. Now that MD had OK'd a straight wall case for deer season, I want more. So I wanted to revisit this thread and see what was happening. I'm thinking more along the lines of a bolt action. But with Covid, Joe heading for the White House, Remington in bankruptcy, and general craziness, I'm having trouble finding a Rem 700 in .223 boltface. The plan is to run as long as possible in brass 1.78 if possible. 1.75 is doable based on brass. Then use either a 35-200 GC cast boolit or .358 35 Rem bullet, either Sierra or Hornady round nose or possibly one of the Hornady flex tip bullets.

    Moleman How deep will that reamer cut?

    Thanks

  8. #88
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Mike in MD, I'm aware of a couple guys on the MDWS site that have made a savage and an encore .358"x1.79". They're reporting 2500fps+ with a Speer 180gr HCFN. I one of them used a 357AR-2 Manson Reamer on the savage and the other used a custom reamer from Manson on the encore.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check