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Thread: 357AR (Max-Rimless) AR15

  1. #41
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    The 357AR build thread I started over at the modern sporting rifle site turned into a group buy for 16" 357AR barrels http://mdws.forumchitchat.com/post/3...6138?trail=325 . I have no connection to it except that I am happy that more guys will have them and hopefully share load data and any different takes on case forming. I've been busy enough this summer that I haven't done much with the 228Gr NOE mold. I did test out some new feed ramp ideas to try to optimize it for use of cast bullets. Initially cast bullets were low on my priority but have since started also shooting them in my 357AR. I hadn't messed with the feed ramps after getting it to feed SJHP and pointy type jacketed like the Hornady 180gr SSP or Speer 180gr HCFN. I ordered a big bore extension from Tromix to test and figured I've got a couple more 44x1.6" uppers to use it on if it didn't work for 357. I had a 357AR pistol barrel that I wasn't using so it was my guinea pig to test feeding. After removing the 40 degree M4 trough style extension and installing the Tromix extension, it still wouldn't feed the cast bullets. Next up I tried a 9mm DI style which seemed to work a bit better. A couple degree angle change and leaving the remaining bit of the bottom lug greatly helped feeding the cast bullets. The jacketed bullets which would feed with the old style feed ramp even seem to feed a little smoother. Left to right, Tromix, M4 trough cut at 40 degrees, 9x19 DI 45 degree, latest 9x19 style at 42 degrees.

  2. #42
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    Texas by God's Avatar
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    What a cool cartridge for the AR.
    I failed to notice any chrono data but I'm guessing about 1700 fps with the 200 gr/16" barrel?

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  3. #43
    Boolit Master ballistim's Avatar
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    I couldn't tell if the group buy would have the latest feed ramp with the modification for better cast bullet feeding from the GB forum at the other site or the mfg. order form.


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  4. #44
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Texas by God, I haven't run the 200gr bullets over the Magneto Speed, but have with the 180's. Chrony average for 180gr Hornady 180gr SSP was 2140 fps out of my sons 15.5" (welded on muzzle brake to bring it up well over 16"). The Quickload guestimates have been fairly close to actual results. For instance. That load was (use at your own risk) 180gr Hornady SSP, 2.235" COL, 34.8gr water capacity RP case, 24.0gr W296. QuickLoad guestimate at 2119 fps at 52,454 psi for a 15.5" barrel. QL guessed within 21fps. Running a Sierra 200gr RN with W296 at around 53Kpsi the QL guess is 2035 fps. I have run some of the 208gr Lead WFN type bullets that came in at 215GR at around 1800fps no where near a top load. Just haven't had time to shoot more loads over the MS this summer.

    ballistim, MDWS is making the barrels and it sounded like it would be a custom version perhaps of the older 762x39 feed ramp which is very close to what I've posted. Neither of us could find a 762x39 extension in stock anywhere. I was an off the shelf extension would work but it looks like a custom one is the way to go. The barrel buy thread is actually a hijack of build thread I'd posted over there back in July. The only contact I've had with MDWS has been in the build thread, so I don't know any more that you. I posted the updated feed ramp in hopes that it would save him some time and effort figuring out which style works the best.
    Last edited by Moleman-; 10-04-2017 at 01:44 AM.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master ballistim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moleman- View Post
    Texas by God, I haven't run the 200gr bullets over the Magneto Speed, but have with the 180's. Chrony average for 180gr Hornady 180gr SSP was 2140 fps out of my sons 15.5" (welded on muzzle brake to bring it up well over 16"). The Quickload guestimates have been fairly close to actual results. For instance. That load was (use at your own risk) 180gr Hornady SSP, 2.235" COL, 34.8gr water capacity RP case, 24.0gr W296. QuickLoad guestimate at 2119 fps at 52,454 psi for a 15.5" barrel. QL guessed within 21fps. Running a Sierra 200gr RN with W296 at around 53Kpsi the QL guess is 2035 fps. I have run some of the 208gr Lead WFN type bullets that came in at 215GR at around 1800fps no where near a top load. Just haven't had time to shoot more loads over the MS this summer.

    ballistim, MDWS is making the barrels and it sounded like it would be a custom version perhaps of the older 762x39 feed ramp which is very close to what I've posted. Neither of us could find a 762x39 extension in stock anywhere. I was an off the shelf extension would work but it looks like a custom one is the way to go. The barrel buy thread is actually a hijack of build thread I'd posted over there back in July. The only contact I've had with MDWS has been in the build thread, so I don't know any more that you. I posted the updated feed ramp in hopes that it would save him some time and effort figuring out which style works the best.
    Thanks for the information, Moleman!
    I've been following this thread for awhile now, seems to be a perfect fit as a legal so. MI deer cartridge in the AR platform, I've been using an Encore with a .357 Max MGM rifle bbl. & before that a Contender Bellm chambered pistol bbl., so I'm sold on the .357 Max already.


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  6. #46
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    Maybe a dumb question but would .355 bullets negate the neck reaming/ turning step?

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  7. #47
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Might, or it just might be the same issue .003" smaller. The new neck area is really the old shoulder area on a 223 case. The case mouths stay pretty consistent but the further back you go the thicker it gets. Its the area near the base of the bullet that is too thick and causes the issues on some cases. I've tried several different ways to turn/ream the cases. The easiest is to just use a reamer pilot when trimming to length.

  8. #48
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    This looks like fun.I`ll saddle up and go along for the ride.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    Leo
    People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election.
    Otto von Bismarck

  9. #49
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    No connection to it (other than being particular to the cartridge) but there was a group buy on barrels that sold out over on the modern sporting rifle site and they're taking names for a second run. It's doe season here for till the end of the year so there's still hope my son will get another deer this year with his 357AR. Hope by this time next year to be running the pointy 228gr -GC bullets in this pic for hunting. Need to test out expansion and possibly try soft point/HP. They cycle decently and shoot ok, but I haven't had time to work up a good load for them yet. They should work, if not I've tweaked the feed ramp a bit to feed the 208gr WFN-GC in the pic better.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails cast-jacketed.JPG  

  10. #50
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Starline brass has made a couple runs of 223 basic brass. They're selling them 250 cases for $90 https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-...r-Designation/ So far I've bought three boxes. They cases only need trimmed to length and reamed (can be done at the same time) in order to make 357AR cases. They do shrink a little on the first firing, so I've been trimming them to max case length for the first firing. After forming the cases from 223 cases for years it almost seems like cheating. We had already loaded and sighted in with LC cased ammo for this past deer season and haven't taken them hunting yet but have been shooting them the past couple months.
    My son ended up not taking any shots in the regular firearms season, but did shoot a doe in December for the late doe season. He took about a 90 yard shot at a mostly broadside doe and double lunged her. Huge blood trail for the 70 yards or so she ran to the edge of the field where she dropped. We'd set him up in a lay down goose blind in knee deep snow so he'd have a 150yd shot to the edge of the woods knowing the deer would end up closer. I was about 500yds away on the same field watching when the first doe came out and started walking towards where my son was. There was a slight dip in the field so I couldn't see him, but apparently he'd gotten cold (it was around zero) and popped his head down inside of the blind to warm up and have a snack. When he popped his head back up there were the deer walking right at him and eyeballing him. Only his head with an orange hat was visible as the blind was covered in snow so I don't think they knew what he was. They turned to his right slightly and kept walking eventually ignoring him. So he eased open the blind and took a shot. -6 and the wind had picked up by the time we got her dressed and in the back of the truck.

  11. #51
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    Good for him! - those chem heat packs might be something you need to give him in future - pop one in each wrist band and in the sock and one in the hat and your toasty.

    I just started trying some Starline 308 brass and it's looking good - nice and consistent.
    je suis charlie

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  12. #52
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Thanks Artful, I'm always more excited when he gets a deer v/s when I get one. He had a couple hand warmer packs, but he gets cold easily like his mom. Keep telling him to grow his beard out so at least his face won't get cold.

  13. #53
    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    je suis charlie

    It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.

    Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

  14. #54
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    This guy surfs Lake Superior every winter and gets epic ice beards.

  15. #55
    Boolit Buddy
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    Looks like the group buy barrels are at round 3 now. I'm thinking about picking one up -- anyone have experience with them?

  16. #56
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Not yet, looking at getting one to compare up against mine.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master Oklahoma Rebel's Avatar
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    moleman, you suppose that beard is bullet resistant? its thick enough! or maybe that's the northern way of waxing?
    An armed man in a citizen.
    An unarmed man is a subject.
    A disarmed man is a slave.

  18. #58
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    I don't know, but it doesn't look like something I want to try.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Haven't updated the thread in a while. My son and I both filled out doe tags with a 357AR this year. He still hunts with the one we built and I occasionally hunt with the 18" that I built in 2012. His is the tan one, mine is the longer one, and the pistol is one I first hunted with in 2013. Starline is still making 223 basic brass that is easily trimmed/reamed and then loaded, although you get better results by annealing, expanding, sizing, trim/ream. MDWS is on their 4th or so round of barrels for them, and there have been a couple other guys who started making barrels as Manson reamers has my two reamer prints on file.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 3-357AR-2.JPG   2018does.JPG  

  20. #60
    Boolit Buddy

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    Where did you get the case reamer?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check