Ruger SBH VS. FA both in .44MAG

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I would like to know how the more expensive gun stacks up against the good ol ruger, is the FA that much stronger or better in some way? either way my heart is still set on the ruger SBH bisley hunter 44MAG 7.5" bbl. also, do any of you all shoot the 260-285gr keith style boolits such as on noes' catalogue? does the extra weight effect their accuracy? I would think they would only get better with a little more weight, in moderation.

[dubber123]

If you intend on not exceeding book loads, the SBH is plenty strong. The F/A is a 60,000 Psi gun all day. 5 Shots Vs. 6, not really a bit deal. A big difference in price.

[W.R.Buchanan]

$600 versus $2600? You can buy 4 SBH's for the price of one FA. The FA's are really nice guns !!! and I have held them at the show.

The FA's occupy a place in the market that I understand fully, but can't take part in. Even if I was rich I wouldn't have one simply because I couldn't justify it in use. Now if I was carrying the gun everyday and it was the only gun I ever carried, and I was shooting it frequently over a period of years, then I could see it.

I don't do that.

The SBH I have will outlive me and still be worth what I paid for it when I decide to sell it, and there will be a lot more people interested in it as well.

The closest I will ever get to an FA gun is the North American Arms Mini Master that I have which was designed by FA!

Randy

[Oklahoma Rebel]

oh wow! I thought they were around 1300, even at that price it was out of my league anyways! either one of you have any experience with the boolits I asked about?

[DougGuy]

You take that Ruger, send the cylinder and have the throats all sized and honed within .0002" of .4325" and you load and shoot .432" boolits. If you get lucky and get one that none of the throats are over .4315" you can have them all sized to .4315" and shoot .431" which at the end of the day, you won't notice any difference between the two sizes, so long as the throats are all even with each other.

You rent the Brownell's chamfer cutter kit from 4D rentals for $30 plus an $80 dollar deposit. You watch their video and pay attention to it, go SLOW, and you recut the forcing cone to 11° and get rid of the typical factory "collection of tool marks arranged in a tapered, orbital fashion" forcing cone that many of them come with.

You replace the factory spring with a Wolff 30oz. trigger return spring, and you dry fire practice until you can hold the sights motionless while the hammer falls. It's made easy with the Wolff spring.

If you want the creep removed from the trigger, send the hammer along with the cylinder and when you get it back, the creep will be gone you will have a crisp trigger that will be more accurate than the creep, stop, then fire, factory trigger.

Now, after all of the above is done, you will have a SBH that will shoot EQUALLY as good as you can shoot the FA revolver. If you put both revolvers in a rest and shoot them at 50yds, the FA *may* out-group the worked-over SBH by 1/4" at 50 yards. MAYBE.

If you want to shoot .432" boolits in the FA, chances are it's cylinder will also need to be reamed and honed. The FA -should- shoot very well with .431" cast boolits right out of the box.

My money would be on the Ruger, after the little amount of work they need is done, they are some mighty fine shooters that will out-shoot the abilities of the majority of us.

Boolit wise I think you'd be better off with a RF or WFN boolit that doesn't have the front driving band that the K type boolit has. The RF boolits are more parallel on the sides to the 11° forcing cone and make for a much smoother transition from cylinder to barrel. The K style boolit has shorter bearing surfaces on the sides and the front of the boolit can become damaged quite easily by the forcing cone transition. I had much better luck with the smoother sided wide meplat boolits. As far as terminal damage on game, they will both kill very handily, I'm just partial to the heavier for caliber wide flat nose design because they shoot good and kill very good.

[contender1]

I'm a serious Ruger fan. I own several, and was just at the OGCA show in Ohio last weekend with a display. I've also had the pleasure of touring the FA plant, and seeing first hand how they build their guns. I own a FA in 454.
New, they start around $2500 and can go up from there depending upon your personal desires.
You can find very fair deals on some used.
But out of the box, factory as issued, the FA is a sweeter feeling & shooting handgun. They are hand assembled & checked. NOT mass produced.
As the saying goes,,, "You get what you pay for."
Both are fine SA revolvers. But the FA builders go slower & pay a lot more attention to details.

[Plastikosmd]

For the average shooter I doubt there is a difference( but I am a huge FA fan)
Get what you can afford and go shoot!
There was a 44 srh hunter that caught my eye once but I pulled the trigger too late, o well

[dubber123]

Mostly used market for me for F/A from now on. I paid $750 for my last one, granted a really good deal, but I won't complain.

[44man]

Agree with Doug. Friend bought a SBH Hunter, I did the trigger and mounted the Ultra Dot. He sighted it and every group at 50 yards was 1/2", got it centered and he shoots deer in the neck.
My SBH has out shot every revolver at IHMSA no matter the make. FA is over priced and does not shoot as good. The BFR is still best with 1/2" at 100 from most. Do this with a freedom at 100 yardsAttachment 172765 How about 50 yards. Attachment 172766 and my SBH off hand at 100, Attachment 172767 3/4". Beat a Ruger or BFR for $2500, get real. How about 200 yards with a lowly Ruger? Attachment 172768 1-5/16".
Come back with pictures.
I am not nice so forgive me. I don't like to ask for proof, gets me in trouble But you must show.
Mods might bash me but truth is important too.
To own 5 freedoms is way out of reach without selling the house. How about how they shoot? Just one 100 yard group.
I was told I was full of it once with my Vaquero in .45 Colt so I took 5 rounds down and shot Creedmore. I got this at 50 yards. Attachment 172769 Maybe never again, who knows but I did it right now to show. I could not sit and listen that it was not possible.
Do I ask for much?
Mods are good people and don't like when I ask for proof but you are stuck with your sayings. I have no fear. Maybe I will get a warning or tossed but I never lie. I hope I am OK. I am afraid to cross the line. I am sure many want to see if a freedom can shoot 1/2" at 100 yards.

[sixshot]

You can drive from New York to Alaska in a Volkswagen & you can do it in a Cadillac, just depends on how you want to travel. Same with guns, I have owned 2 Freedom Arms, a 454 & a 475 that I took to Africa & I own a lot of Rugers & love them all so its just a matter of Champagne or beer, take your pick.

Dick

[44man]

The freedom is a beautiful gun but it is outside. A pig with a rose is still a pig. Working on many still shows a pig. Some builders will not fool with them, prefer a Ruger. Money does not help. Way over complicated internals to get away from paying royalties for the Ruger transfer bar system. Parts fail so the gun is not safe with a round under the hammer. Barrels can be over size with out of round dimensions.
Want a better trigger, $100 for a spring change. Plus postage both ways. Super crazy spring I made for a friend. Ever take one apart?
You CAN get a good one but nobody has ever shown what they claim.

[44man]

Friends .454 with wear enough to eat the throats oblong and the cone off center, eating into the rifling. Too tight and off center. I cut the throats to find the reamer did not cut one side. I cut the cone. I made some play in the cylinder. Look at what it did before and after at 50 yards. Attachment 172770 Original gun when they first came out. 300 factory rounds ruined the gun. I would not buy a freedom for $50.

[cainttype]

There are simple reasons that both Ruger and FA single actions have long-standing market success. The same could be said comparing LEE to Sinclair.
Anything actually "over-priced" will not survive very long in an open, competitive marketplace. Those items die even quicker when their consumers are educated, and most of FA's customers are.
Opinions are like butts... Everybody has one, and everyone else's stinks.

[44man]

Beer is awful good. I drive a 4 Runner and do not want a Porsche. I want what works. I want what I can afford that works. I hate Fords and Chevy's. Never see me with a Chrysler product. I worked on all as a mechanic. I worked on all guns as a smith. Feelings for money spent to atone for it does not compute. it is only your pride. Like your Freedoms, OK. Do they shoot better?

[44man]

Freedom declared bankruptcy. Wonder why? Why is Ruger top dog today? Customer service and good products? Baker wanted your money. Cheap guns at unreal prices because they looked good.
Strong guns, not hardly since a Ruger or BFR is much stronger. Same steel but the little freedom is smaller. Ruger is the pioneer and casts the BFR guns even larger.
FA will go down again.

[lefty o]

ruger is "top dog" because everything is cast or mim and done in very high volume, with an excellent profit margin. no other reason. i like older rugers, but you would have to pay me to have a brand new one.

[cainttype]

That same Porsche will out-perform a Rolls Royce in every category except quality-build and comfort... So what?
I've handled both FA 83s and Rugers for a long time, and own both. Anyone familiar with both that doesn't already know the differences is either in denial or trying to justify their own prejudices.
Rugers work fine, and I've got plenty of them attesting to that, but comparing their "quality" to a firearm that totally outclasses them is silly.

You want market success?... Find a way to build it cheaper so that you can sell it cheaper while maintaining a decent profit margin...and sell a ****-load of them.
Trying to offer a high-quality build that commands premium pricing is always more difficult, and incurs much higher risk... God help you if the economy takes a downturn.

Rocket science, it ain't.

[DougGuy]

ruger is "top dog" because everything is cast or mim and done in very high volume, with an excellent profit margin. no other reason. i like older rugers, but you would have to pay me to have a brand new one.

The recent production medium frame guns I have had come through my shop have EARNED me into believing in them. Enough to own one! The fit and finish is as good as they have EVER been, the thread choke in these is non existant and once cylinder throats are sized they are some of the best production that Ruger has EVER produced, even counting the old models. I wasn't interested in one, but after doing a few forcing cones and cylinders and looking down the barrels and NOT seeing the typical lawyer warning ridges or thread choke, I was like "Hey! I -WANT- one of these!"

[Lloyd Smale]

given the choice if money didn't matter id take the FA gun hands down. Ive had 7 of them and all were great shooters. the reason there going bankrupt is mostly due to a law suit against them for some idiot that shot himself. That said the rugers are good guns too. Most 44 mag rugers shoot great right out of the box. Its mostly 45colts rugers that are trouble. Either gun will take some serious loads. Edge in strength definitely goes to the FA but if your fooling around at pressures that test the ruger your an idiot anyway. Depends on what you want. Like was said if your a chev Malibu type of guy a ruger is probably what you want. There cheaper and get the job done. Some are into this hobby a bit more and take pride in a finely crafted piece. To those the FA guns are a good bargin. there built as well or better then most custom shops do with rugers and cheaper to boot. The way I look at it is this. I doubt id buy one in 44 mag. Just to many other good options out there but if I was looking for something like a 454 or 475 or 500we id go fa and know that when I opened the package the gun would be about perfect and ready to go without any tweaking or changing things. Some here have a hard__ for FA. Me I know a finely crafted revolver when I handle one and that's what FA made its name building. Sorry ruger and BFR guys but the TRUTH is there cheaper for a reason. Now given a choise between a stainless super and a bfr id take the bfr. Price difference isn't that great but there just to big and clunky for me and they lack a bisley style grip frame which in 44 isn't a big concern as to recoil but it just feels better in my hands. Ive owned MANY 44 mags through the years and my favorite is a 4 5/8s super that ive owned for probably 25 years. It shoots great and has put many lbs of meat on the table. It would be the last handgun to leave my safe if I had to sell.

[44man]

Freedoms are finely finished but I believe the frames are still cast. Cast has proven the strongest and a freedom is strong enough for anything.
Ruger has the best with the Pine Tree facility and casts the BFR parts. Lost wax process and I wonder if they cast the Freedoms.
I just hate the internals and have had to make parts from tool steel to stop the firing pin from pushing out with my thumb on the hammer. Very explicit instructions to NEVER have a round under the hammer with either the hammer block or transfer bar. 5 chambers that are really a 4 shooter.
They have good trigger pulls, crisp but still heavy, Just the trigger spring. I get a BFR to 19 oz with no creep. Mine feel like electric triggers. The custom shop BFR was perfection and has never been apart. I never had to work a trigger on a SRH either. I don't like the RH.
Freedoms are fit too tight and wear fast, cylinders can't clock. Took 3 barrel changes to get a round .357" barrel and 200 different loads with every bullet/boolit never got it to shoot. You might love the bank vault but it is wrong. Jack Huntington customs have more cylinder play then factory guns. I have shot many of his and he loves the Ruger to build on.
When I seen the .454 with oblong throats from bullets pushing and the cone worn to the side with wear going into the rifling, maybe Doug can explain how I fixed it. Yes I added play to the cylinder too.
If you think a bullet/boolit will not wear a gun if off, surprise! 300 rounds wore the .454 but I have over 81,000 heavy rounds through my cheap Ruger with no measurable wear.
Freedom was sued because the guy snagged the hammer on his drover and when it fell, it fired without the trigger being pulled. I have seen the failure.
I will buy every freedom for $50 because I can fix them and sell for more.
Friend had his on consignment over 2 years and finally sold it with a huge beating. With repairs and postage he lost near $1500. Guess what he bought, Rugers and BFR's.
I would not hunt deer with a Freedom or Colt SAA with all the clicks.
Most in the old west had parts for their guns because fiddling with the sears would drop the trigger into the safety notch and break it. NEVER remove metal from the hammer on these. A Freedom or Colt can not have too light of a trigger or it will catch and break.
A Ruger or BFR can hang fire or fail too but nothing will break. See how I make a transfer bar to be reliable.Attachment 172790 It covers the whole pin at full cock. Even a finger kick will not drop it off the pin.