Starting to think about a progressive Press

[6622729]

I can't believe I'm progressing from a Lee Classic Cast single stage press to a Lee Classic turret press and now thinking about a Dillon 650. I dont need any help with deciding on a Dillon vs. anything else, I've already made that call. What I need help with is being comfortable with a powder measure. I just started using a Lee Perfect Powder Measure (I had been dipping and weighing each charge) and I still confirm each charge on a scale. It does well but I do have to adjust a number of the throws and some are several tenths off so I dump those. I won't be able to do that with a progressive and I'm just not sure I can loosen up my standards to be happy with a progressive press's powder measure. The 650 would be exclusively for 9mm. The turret and single stage for my rifle loads. Thoughts?

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Powder selection can make a big difference in accuracy of your measure. Two tenths of a grain may not make a difference, depending on powder and caliber. Finding the 'sweet spot' using the 'ladder method' can help with powder charge selection and need for weighing accuracy. The distance you are shooting can also make a difference - 25 yards not so much, 300 yards - maybe. Again powder selection - ball or fine/short cut tubular helps, 3031 does not measure very well, Varget is much better, 748 or 2520 or TAC are best - for measuring accurately, Same for pistol powders. There is no one powder that is magically better than others in the same burn rate and pressure range.

[lefty o]

any powder can cause problems, but buy the powder checker with your dillon. will audibly let you know if you have a hi or low powder charge. pulling a case out and checking every powder charge defeats the purpose of a progressive press.

[tstowater]

I am in agreement with the prior comments. I would add that my experience is that a Dillon powder measure is generally pretty accurate. If you require every load to be +/-.1 grain, then you may want to determine whether a progressive meets your needs. I would say most of the better metering powder will meet that standard most of the time.

I have loaded quite a few rifle loads, primarily 17 Rem., 204, 22-250 and 220 Swift. Some of the powders meter better than others, but the 4895's and 4064s meet my "minute 'o prairie dog" standard easily to 300 yards and beyond.

Obviously, .1 grain of Bullseye on a 3 grain load is different than .1 grain of powder on a 28 grain load.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Walter Laich]

Can you find someone in your area already using the 650? see if they will invite you over to watch the process and allow you to measure a few of the powder loads

a 6-pack of adult beverages is always a welcome gift but needs to be consumed after the reloading session.

[OS OK]

It was a dilemma indeed for me to learn to trust an automatic press. I weighted hundreds of different loads, one right after another and soon determined that each powder will have it's variances according to what the physical dimensions of that power are. In the end I determined to never load a near max. load on any pistol round and I never load for rifles, they still get done on the single stage because I want MOA ammo and I don't shoot quantity in the rifles.
In the end I now load within .2g. for the pistols and rely on the powder cop that physically 'locks' the press rather than rely on seeing a little line on the shaft.
The other thing is to develop a method to clear the press without messing up any of the other rounds being made at the same time. If you have a problem, remember that you probably have indexed the press and a squib could get past the cop, especially if the press indexes by 1/2 turn increments on short strokes as you are trying to fiddle with it. Many times it's a problem of the case not aligning under the sizer and it takes a little nudge, but like I said, if the press indexes everything will advance together.
I had my press for at least a month before I started seeing an increase of production over the turret press...autos require a new discipline on the part of the handloader.

Best-O-luck, I'm sure you will like the auto...OS OK

[UKShootist]

With regards to the Lee Perfect Powder Measure I have found it's results vary quite tremendously according the powder weighed and the quantity. With small quantities, 3-4 grains of flake powders it seems wildly inaccurate. With fine spherical powders, especially with slightly larger load, sat about 4+ it was spot on every time. Just what I have experienced.

[dudel]

Dillon powder measure is a good place to start. Like many of us, you won't have to go any further. I started with a Hornady, went to a LEE PPM, ended up with a Dillon long before I got the 550.

Congrats on your new 650. It was just a matter of time.

[DerekP Houston]

I've had great success with the auto disk and ball powders. Flake cause me issues (STD larger) but nothing major so far. Dillon would be a huge step up from that I'm sure. Eventually I'll get around to degreasing the LnL powder measure and getting it setup...just haven't had the time or inclination yet.

[OS OK]

Derek...save yourself a lot of time on that LnL...after cleaning and properly setting it up, run powdered graphite through it to coat all the internal area around the metering hole and the drum assy. where it contacts the frame.
You don't need too much, just catch it as you go and keep recycling it till your satisfied with the lube job.
But...set-up on that throw and linkage is critical.

[DerekP Houston]

Derek...save yourself a lot of time on that LnL...after cleaning and properly setting it up, run powdered graphite through it to coat all the internal area around the metering hole and the drum assy. where it contacts the frame.
You don't need too much, just catch it as you go and keep recycling it till your satisfied with the lube job.
But...set-up on that throw and linkage is critical.

Cool! Thanks for the tip, I've use the lee auto disk so much I have my loads memorized and it was simple to swap over. Once I get around to it I'll make sure I follow your advice.

[6622729]

I don't have the 650 yet but it is a given if I get a progressive and knowing me it's just a matter of time. The powder check is also a given. I went to the Dillon site and priced out my 650. It was a little over $800 with the particular options I added. The rest of the givens are that this press is for 9mm and my favorite powder right now which is 5.2gr BE-86. The 9mm gun is also a given, a Glock 19. I know it's not a target gun, it's my everything gun so in a defense situation, it just has to run and this gun does. I'm just striving to do the best I can with that gun as the limiting factor (other than me. Lol). I'm on 8 1/2 x 11 paper at 25yds and getting better every time I go out. The press will likely not be used for rifle. I too shoot for accuracy or at least certainly not shooting for volume so the turret will be fine for 300aac and 223. Just trying to convince myself that the powder measure will be reliable and repeatable. I've been measuring to +- zero tenths and that's going to be difficult to let go of.

[OS OK]

You and I think alike in this regard...it just takes time to get used to things since 'so much' is going on simultaneously and you have to learn to be satisfied with the variance though you will eventually make it minimum. As operators of the press, most instances point to our shortcomings in press operation, inconsistent operation of the lever as to speed and force applied. Start out slow and deliberate, the press will force you to do that, and being of our mindset you will develop the new skill required, but, you'll get to a point where you will like the results.
For me it's slow and steady, I'm not out to out-produce anyone, slow and steady and the finished round box will fill at an amazing rate.
I didn't mention anything about priming on the press, but, I've learned to clean primer pockets and cases together in the same operation...de-priming first...do not prime on my press, do it in a separate step. I come to the auto press with clean, primed cases...that's just me.

Patience, patience, patience....you and I are always the weak link in this chain most of the time.

[dudel]

I don't have the 650 yet but it is a given if I get a progressive and knowing me it's just a matter of time. The powder check is also a given. I went to the Dillon site and priced out my 650.

Price it out at the Brian Enos site. Got mine there, and it was free shipping.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I have a 550, and found that the Dillon powder measure did not throw consistent charges of my favorite powder, Red Dot. I switched to HS-6 and the problem went away. With small charges, you might want to avoid the larger flake powder. Ball powder works fine.

[ole 5 hole group]

That Dillon 650 is one fine progressive reloader. I have the Hornady LnL Progressive and load everything from 32 H&R mag to 30-06 with it.

I find the LnL powder measure to throw a lot of powders right on the nose every time. I would think the Dillon 650 will do the same.

I also coat the cylinder with powdered graphite a couple times a year. There are just some powders like Varget that just don't throw well in any powder measure. If you have to be dead-nuts for each case, then set it up to throw a tad light and then add to it after you run them through removing them at the last station and placing them in your loading blocks - when going back to seat the bullet just remove the resize and expander dies and you're good to go - still faster than using a single stage.

Now a powder check is for 99.99% peace of mind, as I doubt you'll ever experience a powder bridge and the only way you'll probably ever throw a double charge is when you have a stoppage - you need to know if the powder is dispensed on the up or down stroke of the handle - any stoppage deserves a look-see at the cartridge under the powder measure station. I use that 5th station for a crimp station for all cartridges (using a Redding profile crimp die). Peace of mind is always a good thing.

[OS OK]

This discussion just keeps getting better...and don't forget the light...gotta have the light!

[lefty o]

Price it out at the Brian Enos site. Got mine there, and it was free shipping.

he doesnt ship free anymore, but his shipping is half of dillons, and the parts are the same price. so you'd save about $15, but jump quick because he is retiring at the end of this month and will no longer sell dillon stuff.

[6622729]

he doesnt ship free anymore, but his shipping is half of dillons, and the parts are the same price. so you'd save about $15, but jump quick because he is retiring at the end of this month and will no longer sell dillon stuff.

Then that doesn't sound like my guy. I'll just order direct from Dillon.

As for breaking speed records, no. I subscribe to slow and steady as well. I'm just planning to shoot higher volume of 9mm than I have in the past and I don't want to spend as much time building a quantity. Originally I didn't think I'd leave the single stage but then I was only doing 223. The turret press has been a fantastic step forward. I can't imagine doing 9mm on a single stage and the powder measure is another step beyond that even though I still check weigh every throw. The progressive is no doubt where I am headed once I can get comfortable with the idea that I'm not 100% certain every round that the powder charge is right on. I don't want to create a new variable in my shooting as I continue to tighten up my 9mm groups. When I started I could hit you with 2 out of 5 shots on a poster board at 25yds. Now I can hit you 10 out of 10 times (8 of 10 within 8 1/2" x 11") at 25yds and getting better. A little more volume shooting and I think I can bring it in much tighter, hence the desire for the progressive.

[dverna]

I have loaded 10's of thousands of pistol rounds on Dillon progressives. Unless you are shooting at 50 yards with a very excellent pistol, you will not notice the slight variation in powder drops that you get. With a Glock the gun is far more inaccurate than the variation you may get with thrown charges. (Not dissing Glocks - I have three and it is what I carry - but it is not a target gun)

I use a Powder Checker on the 650 and 1050. Very worthwhile investment.

BTW, stop being anal about powder drops. Go to the range and check groups. If a +/- .2 grain maximum variation cannot be seen on paper, it is only an issue in your head. Forget about it.