Case gauges for checking final cartridges?

[Shadowden]

I started casting wheel weights using an NOE 133 gn 0.358 mould and sizing to .356. Shooting out of glocks (a variety). Predominantly, I have been seeing good accuracy and function from the gun. However, when it isn't right, it is really bad. Failure to go into battery and lodged to the point that working the slide doesn't work. I have pounded the cartridge out from the muzzle with a steel rod. Feels extremely sketchy, but not sure of an alternative.

With that said, I thought I would run them through a lyman case gauge. Some passed easily, some fell to the rim, and some were set back quite a way. I verified brass was sizing correctly ( it wasn't, so Dillon sent a new friction plate). I am now getting consistently sized brass, but still not getting cartridges that consistently pass the gauge. This is the same for both the square deal press set up and my lee turret set up. Overall length is not a problem.

So three questions:
Is it improper to use a case gauge for cast boolits sized to 0.356 since plated and jacketed rounds are 0.355?

If it is okay if the boolits do not pass the gauge, I'm still curious as to why some pass and some do not. I did dial in my taper crimp on the turret and dillon, but still don't get 100% pass. My goal is to understand where the inconsistency is, how to mitigate, and not run into failures that end range trips.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Having ready a fair but of the FAQ on the 9mm, I'm getting good shooting characteristics, but the inability to eject and failures to go into battery are very problematic to me, though they seem related. Are the tests that matter most the bullet slug diameter of the rifling and the brass after firing to alleviate my issues? The cartridges that passed the gauge shot very well and no evidence of leading in my g19.

As a follow up. I did look at brass headstamps and brass that failed, also had examples of passing. So fails and passes of blazer, win, fc, r-p. Need to check the brass i collected at the range as i don't seem to have cbc that passed, but a fair amount that failed.

[PJEagle]

I had some similar experiences with a couple of Springfield Armory 1911's. The first thing I did was to sort my range pickup brass by headstamp. The second thing was to sell my case gauge, remove the barrel and use the chamber to check my finished rounds to see if they would plunk. If those two things don't fix the problem, you need to send your barrel to DougGuy to have it throated.

Case gauges are good, but only the chamber will tell you if they fit an individual firearm. Many pistols have enough throat for fmj bullets, but not enough for cast boolits.

[JimB..]

Sounds like a brass problem, rather than a bullet problem. Try gauging 200 pieces of prepared brass (sized, but not loaded) and remove any that don’t pass. Load the remainder and see how many loaded cartridges fail, if any.

BTW, what is a friction plate?

[castmiester]

you have case bulge from oversized boolits. With a larger expander like a cowboy type, it gets rid of the bulge. Chill WIlls here on the forum can make you a custom expander. Get with him with the details.

[243winxb]

To much crimp will bulge the brass. A taper crimp should just remove the flare.

Range brass, at different trim lengths, some will get more crimp then others. I have trimmed some range brass that was over maximum length.

Lyman gauge- Read the instructions, again. It measures maximums. I use the barrel.

Dies make a difference. RCBS is my choice.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...9mm-luger.317/

The case does headspace on the case mouth. The trim length is most important. Dont over crimp.

[country gent]

I would check for bulge at bottom of case. Then since you said cbc brass is the big culprit measure the neck size of some of the loaded rounds that failed and passed also check neck wall thickness. Your .356 bullet and thick brass may be an issue. Another is to try different crimps you may have a bulge behind the crimp.

If your using a steel rod to push out stuck rounds, get a piece of shrink insulation and put over the steel rod to protect the bore. Better still a piece of 8mm or 5/16 brass rod would be even better. You can get a foot of this from on-line metals.

[Shadowden]

Thank you all.

I have run ~100 pieces of brass with 100% pass pass either in my lee press or dillon press. So a combination of brass and bullet makes sense.

I do not want to load bullet specific to gun...so maybe casting wasn't the best choice for me. Was hopeful I could run the same loads all through my g19s, g26, and g43. I'll pull my barrels and drop the dummys in and see what happens with the actual chambers.

A friction plate is a plate Dillon uses between their die head and the press on the square deal. When I contacted them, they referred me to a vidwo that showed that inconsistent case sizing occurred when the friction plate was worn. Mine was worn, but that issue is now resolved.

I am limited to dillon dies in the square deal. I could change out my lee dies on the turret, but ultimately want the dillon to work as it is WAY more efficient.

I did load some dummy rounds using cases that passed gauge. I was about 50% pass/fail.

So am hopeful that actually backing off the taper crimp will be the answer. I was definatly going with more taper to shrink things down, so good to know I was just moving it back and potentially making it bulge (still got some passes).

I'll look up Chill Wills.

Thanks again!

[racepres]

I fireform everything since I been wildcatting since the '70's..
I would rather a Perfect chamber fit, than any gauge...Thanks...

[farmbif]

yup, plunk test. I was once driven half near crazy with 270 win reloads that would not chamber, I got both Wilson and Lyman case gauges. cartridges both loaded and just resized fit in them perfectly. but still would not chamber in a rem 700 or a savage 12 the cartridges had just the slightest neck setback and bulge that could not be seen from turning the sizing die into press just a bit too much

[castmiester]

I fireform everything since I been wildcatting since the '70's..
I would rather a Perfect chamber fit, than any gauge...Thanks...

this is true. Probably better off slugging the barrel and running groove diameter boolits.

[Shadowden]

Well, I am happy and confused by what I am learning. All but one of the dummy rounds I loaded following the repair of my press passed the plunk test in my most persnickety barrel (Gen 5 G19). I'm going to do the same with my other barrels. It still bothers me that they are not passing the gauge test. If the gauge is a maximum, they should be fitting in there relatively easily I would think.

In regard to the one that did not pass, looking at the shoulder, it appears it may not have seated square as the amount of shoulder over the brass does not look the same.

Having said that, I have backed off the crimp considerably while leaving enough to remove the flare completely. I am hopeful this leads to more uniform cartridges and smoother operation.

I did contact Chill Wills. I have some homework to do there. Plan to contact Dillon ASAP to determine if their dies are all the same. I don't understand how the cowboy expander eliminates case bulge, but anything that will help reliability and prolong case life is welcome.

Finally, I would like to pull all these bullets as easily as possible. I do kave a kinetic hammer, which is brutal for this many rounds and for recovery of the powder in loaded rounds that i still need to verify with the plunk test. Have any of you had any success with the RCBS collet puller? I have the die body, but would need a collet. If you have had success, which collet are you using for 9 mm? the .357/.38 seems like it would be too big, but maybe it clamps down enough?The .348 seems too small. I've searched the internet some, but didn't find anything very helpful. I also called some shops that sell the collets, but none of the customer service folks were personally familiar and didn't have an answer. Worst case, is a call to RCBS.

Thanks everyone!

[JimB..]

You’re using an oversized bullet, so it makes sense that the case gauge designed for a smaller bullet isn’t the right tool for testing your reloads.

I like the RCBS collet puller, but if you have a single stage press you can just raise the press ram with no die in the press, grab the bullet with a pair of side cutters, and lower the press ram. It destroys the bullet, so back in the pot it goes.

When you seat bullets it helps a bunch if they start square. The RCBS cowboy expander is both slightly larger than a regular expander and it has a little step that helps get the bullet started straight. Wouldn’t use it for 9mm though because I think it’s too long given the geometry of 9mm brass.

I do think that part of the problem is that some brands of brass are thicker than others. You might want to sort some by headstamp to test.

[ddeck22]

Well, I am happy and confused by what I am learning. All but one of the dummy rounds I loaded following the repair of my press passed the plunk test in my most persnickety barrel (Gen 5 G19). I'm going to do the same with my other barrels. It still bothers me that they are not passing the gauge test. If the gauge is a maximum, they should be fitting in there relatively easily I would think.

In regard to the one that did not pass, looking at the shoulder, it appears it may not have seated square as the amount of shoulder over the brass does not look the same.

Having said that, I have backed off the crimp considerably while leaving enough to remove the flare completely. I am hopeful this leads to more uniform cartridges and smoother operation.

I did contact Chill Wills. I have some homework to do there. Plan to contact Dillon ASAP to determine if their dies are all the same. I don't understand how the cowboy expander eliminates case bulge, but anything that will help reliability and prolong case life is welcome.

Finally, I would like to pull all these bullets as easily as possible. I do kave a kinetic hammer, which is brutal for this many rounds and for recovery of the powder in loaded rounds that i still need to verify with the plunk test. Have any of you had any success with the RCBS collet puller? I have the die body, but would need a collet. If you have had success, which collet are you using for 9 mm? the .357/.38 seems like it would be too big, but maybe it clamps down enough?The .348 seems too small. I've searched the internet some, but didn't find anything very helpful. I also called some shops that sell the collets, but none of the customer service folks were personally familiar and didn't have an answer. Worst case, is a call to RCBS.

Thanks everyone!

Yes, the 357/38 collet is specifically made to grab 9mm (.355/.356/.357) bullets. The more exposed bullet the easier to grab it. Also, an aggressive crimp will make it difficult to pull, especially with soft lead.

[Soundguy]

I use a case gauge just as a go / no go quick check on like 1 in 20 rounds. Your guns chamber is the real test..though if it passes a case gauge..it should fit ANY gun. I doubt the oversized bullets is the problem. 99% of what I shoot are my own cast lead bullets and all of them are at least .001 over jacketed..and do not cause problems. Taper crimp seems to solve many problems if done correctly..over crimping usually causes problems. Also.. the lee FCD is a good crimp choice. it will either be a collet.. or in some cases taper..but also has a carbide ring in the base ( newer ones ) .. and it irons out over crimp mistakes that bulge the brass.

[gloob]

I have had zero luck trying to pull softcast pistol bullets in a press, even in 9mm which has a lot of the boolit exposed. If you try hard enough, you can get just the top half the boolit out, which does you no good. Kinetic is the only way for me, on this type of ammo.

There's a semi-automated kinetic puller using springs. I think Frankford Arsenal makes it; it's loud.

[racepres]

As Said..your individual arm's chamber is the True Test.. Fully Half of My Rifles would be SOL if I depended on a case gauge..Wildcats!!
Heck, Even my 25-06 (25 Niedner), is from before they were Standardized!!

[rockshooter]

As others have noted, plunk test in your own barrel is the only test. Stash the case gauge at the back of your drawer somewhere. Looking at the NOE 133gr RN- if that's what you're using, you might try seating it to where the end of the straight side is even with the case mouth, with any flare removed but just a tiny crimp. Bear in mind that 9mm cases vary in length, but I've never trimmed them, using exclusively pick-up brass. A major issue comes with powder-coated cast bullets- the bullet design needs to account for the added powder coat on the nose after sizing the bullet sides. Lee carbide factory crimp dies will make the base small enough to load in almost any chamber. Ever barrel/maker is a little different. My glocks eat anything, since they have more generous leades, but a CZ with no leade took more fiddling to chamber cast bullets. Be prepared to struggle a little bit- don't get frustrated- that's how we all learn. As far as pulling 9mm bullets- less hassle to find a gun that shoots what you have-may need to buy a dozen to try. And use factory glock barrels- a little sloppy is a good thing!
Loren

[Beast of Burden]

I, too, have struggled some with my 9mm loads. I have found that sometimes I can't size the brass low enough at the head. I will switch to the the LEE Undersized sizer and it seems to help. I also set my sizer die to cam over on my Lyman t-Mag press.

Some times the brass seems to be oversized at the base and will not chamber in my pistols with tighter chambers. I use a L.E. Wilson case gauge to test my sized brass before I go any further with priming, etc. so that I don't have to pull bullets. After loading and crimping (Lee FCD), I check again with the Wilson gauge or pistol barrel of my tightest chamber (S&W M & P 2.0).

If the loaded round does not fit the gauge, I separate it and use it in my Beretta 92fs. My Beretta 92 will eat everything. It must have a huge chamber.

[racepres]

I, too, have struggled some with my 9mm loads. I have found that sometimes I can't size the brass low enough at the head. I will switch to the the LEE Undersized sizer and it seems to help. I also set my sizer die to cam over on my Lyman t-Mag press.

Some times the brass seems to be oversized at the base and will not chamber in my pistols with tighter chambers. I use a L.E. Wilson case gauge to test my sized brass before I go any further with priming, etc. so that I don't have to pull bullets. After loading and crimping (Lee FCD), I check again with the Wilson gauge or pistol barrel of my tightest chamber (S&W M & P 2.0).

If the loaded round does not fit the gauge, I separate it and use it in my Beretta 92fs. My Beretta 92 will eat everything. It must have a huge chamber.

I thought "they" made something called a Bulge Buster for such instances?? Otherwise, keep sticking problem brass in that Beretta, and it will soon be the only arm that will digest yer handloads!!!

[Soundguy]

I thought "they" made something called a Bulge Buster for such instances?? Otherwise, keep sticking problem brass in that Beretta, and it will soon be the only arm that will digest yer handloads!!!

yup..good for glocked brass..or other unsupported chamber guns.. A lee FCD with a sizer ring usually works too