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Thread: Loading Black Powder Paper Patched 45-70 Cartridges

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    DoctorBill's Avatar
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    Loading Black Powder Paper Patched 45-70 Cartridges

    I am 73 and haven't reloaded for over a year and a half due to my
    wife getting Cancer last year. Sort of put a big stop to everything....

    Well, she is OK for now, so I went to the range and shot up all my
    45-70's in my Pedersoli Sharps. Had to reload.....

    Perhaps all you younger guys can remember exactly HOW you do
    stuff w/o help, but I had forgotten just how I did all the steps to reload
    Paper Patched cartridges and had to relearn (reinvent) the wheel, so to say.

    After going back and reviewing everything, while reloading 50 rounds with
    364 grain Paper Patched Wheel Weight Cast Bullets (of my own design) with
    50 grains of Goex FFg (light loads for an old shoulder), I decided I had better
    record what I was doing for later, in case I forget the details again !

    So I took some pictures of what I was doing and put them together so that
    I could print it out and put it in my 3-ring Reloading Binder.

    It will help my son, who I am hoping will carry on with BP shooting when
    I go to the big Black Powder Range in the sky (hopefully not the other place !).

    I will put the procedure I used to Paper Patch these cast bullets later on at the
    end of this thread. Here goes. The pages print out for both sides of a piece of
    paper for punching 3-holes on the right side. For what it is worth.

    BTW - I use the LEE 45-70 Die Set and the Brass/Steel Powder Compressing
    tools from Wolf - http://www.4570products.info/main.sc
    Not sure they sell them any more....picture No. 5
    You could use a hardwood dowel of the proper diameter for 45-70 cases tho.















    I will probably get nasty comments that I am doing this wrong or
    someone won't like my methods or my work area is cluttered.
    Piffle.

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 07-17-2016 at 12:52 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

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    If they shoot good for you in your rifle keep going. I am assuming you bullets are groove dia not bore dia. What size do the patched bullets measure? Another little trick to lubricate and water proof the patch is Lee Sizing die wax the water souluable. I mix it 3 parts water to 1 part wax and dampen patches when rolling them. Or a light coat can be applied with fingers just before seating. I have also used JoJoba oil for this. My Pedersoli sharps does very well with a 530 grn PP bullet also.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    My Pedersoli bore measures 0.446 to 0.457. I patch to the groove diameter.
    The bullet itself is smooth sided and 0.440 dia. 364 grains round top.


    I made the cavity in Aluminum with a "D-Bit" reamer I manufactured.

    I measure .457-.458 with calipers with 2 rolls of a paper I obtained from
    somewhere many years ago. I keep a pile of paper with enough there to
    Paper Patch for a large Army.

    BTW - My repro H&R 45-70 Springfield 'Cavalry' Trapdoor has a larger bore-groove measurement - 0.447 to 0.461 - so these should also work (in between bore and groove).

    I'm all done with 50 rounds now and feel like doing some more !

    I have read many comments about Paper Patching....roll wet, roll dry, no need
    to lubricate the paper, soak paper in oil, wax the paper after rolling, on and on.

    After shooting these for a while, I have the feeling that it really doesn't matter
    what you do with the paper. I am not a marksman in any way and I don't compete
    at shooting matches, so the finer aspects of this hobby don't matter to me.

    I am lucky to hit the target at all !
    I'm happy if I can put most rounds into a 6 inch circle at 100 Yards.
    If I were in a battle sometime back in the 1800's,
    I would hit the enemy or an Elk. A squirrel would probably be fairly safe !

    After shooting 30 of these 45-70's, my shoulder has had enough !

    I paper patch for my .577-450 Martini-Henry and my .577 Snider.
    The British .577 calibre Snider is a scary rifle ! It kicks hard !
    I can't imagine having those big slugs coming at me !



    DoctorBill
    Eastern Washington State (Spokane area)

    PS - Was looking at those "KAL" moulds (English Spelling) - WOW !
    Beautiful, but beautiful moulds ! http://kal.castpics.net/Molds.html

    I have not attempted to make moulds in Steel....only Aluminum.
    Wonder if I could do it ?!
    I lust after the Postell Shape Bullet Molds.....

    What do the numbers of the designs mean ? i.e. "40-2.5xT-200"
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 07-17-2016 at 09:23 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  4. #4
    Boolit Master semtav's Avatar
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    I doubt those stubby things will suffer distortion, but you might try compressing the powder with something else then seating the bullet.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Yes - I have such a thing from "Track of the Wolf" - you see it being
    used in picture No. 5, page 3 - to set the card disk down on the
    powder.

    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...IE-45-COMPRESS

    As I said, I am loading 50 grains of Goex as a reduced load.

    50 grains comes right up to where the card, lube cookie and bullet
    set in the cartridge.

    What made you say that ?

    DoctorBill
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    can you elaborate on the function of the lube cookie, I know its to lube but I have never seen that before. I don't pp just use my lube-sizer to prep my boolits. if its not proprietary maybe the recipe for your cookie?

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Doctor Bill

    Very nice write-up. Thanks for doing it.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    M-Tecs - Thank you. I think it is our DUTY to teach those younger than us what we learned with such difficulty. It makes our species different than animals. It advances us.

    Rancher1913 - "can you elaborate on the function of the lube cookie, I know
    its to lube but I have never seen that before.
    "

    Wow - never thought I would have to explain about Lube Cookies !
    Not that it is a dumb question - just the contrary !
    It is a very good question, but requires a lot of answer.

    Paul Matthews wrote about "Grease Cookies" in his Book "Shooting the
    Black Powder Cartridge Rifle". I bought all of his books and read them
    cover to cover. They are worth buying (Amazon?) !
    Also - These books ! https://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/Item.aspx/1214/1

    On page 67 he starts explaining them.

    On this Forum, you can find threads about them.
    Here is one: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-cookie!/page3

    Skip the first page of wise-off replies. About reply number 7 you start to get the info you are looking for.

    Try this: http://www.bpcr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219

    I don't want to type out the whole thing from Matthews book, but in essence the Lube Cookie
    spreads a soft waxy deposit down the barrel and keeps the BP residue soft for the next bullet
    to wipe it clean as it leaves the barrel. Thus, the Lube Cookie allows you to keep firing w/o
    having to use a "blow tube" and/or swab the barrel often.

    As to "formulas" - I made up mine. You want it soft, but not too soft (laugh it up !) Not corrosive, either.

    This is "More or less" and the 'formula' changes as I make it up......
    54 % Parowax One Slab
    28 % Peanut Oil 4 tbsp + 1 tsp I have read that peanut oil works best.
    11 % Toilet Bowl Wax Ring (Gunk Corp) 2 Tbsp Don't laugh ! This stuff is a good lubricant ! Cheap too !
    5 % STP Oil Treatment 1 Tbsp I use different wax dyes to distinguish different mixes.

    Melted all together in a pot on the stove.

    Find a high wall plastic dish - like with Nissan Chow Mein Noodle Meal. Has a nice high temp, high wall plastic bowl. I keep a bunch of them.
    Good to use to feed your pets....they don't deform in hot water.





    Anyway - fill the container with boiling water to about 1/2 inch depth.
    Pour the mixed, melted lube cookie mixture on top of the HOT water to a depth of about .2 inch or 4 mm. - - > It floats !
    Let the bowl set until next morning (put in fridge for a while after it cools down).
    The Lube Cookie mix will be hard and can be removed, dried off and
    stored between waxed paper sheets until needed.

    They make window glass by floating molten glass on top of molten Tin !

    I cut the cookies with an old 45-70 shell case and blow the cookie out.
    Alternatively, cut the end off the casing and push the Lube Cookie out with a wood dowel.
    I made a Lube Cookie cutter out of an old Martini-Henry shell case.

    I hope this gets you going on Lube Cookies. Some folks don't use them.

    Whatever floats your boat.....different strokes for different folks.....etc, etc. !

    DoctorBill

    PS - The 1873 Martini Henry (Zulu !) used a cartridge that had a Lube Cookie in it !
    Check it out - http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...77-martini.jpg



    The Beeswax wad was an early "Lube Cookie" ! Imagine being attacked by 4,000 Zulus !
    No time for a "Blow Tube" or swabbing the barrel ! "Fire at will !" Rent the movie Zulu !
    Fascinating. Black Powder Cartridge rifles in battle. I have one of those Bayonets ! Hideous !

    Last edited by DoctorBill; 07-18-2016 at 11:49 AM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Drying my recently Paper Patched Bullets.....quicker than just setting there.



    A commonly found bullet reloading tray - use either side.
    The square holes let the air circulate around the PP Bullet and they dry quickly.

    I have NO patience !

    DoctorBill
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

    rancher1913's Avatar
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    thanks, that makes sense now.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master semtav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBill View Post
    Yes - I have such a thing from "Track of the Wolf" - you see it being
    used in picture No. 5, page 3 - to set the card disk down on the
    powder.

    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...IE-45-COMPRESS

    As I said, I am loading 50 grains of Goex as a reduced load.

    50 grains comes right up to where the card, lube cookie and bullet
    set in the cartridge.

    What made you say that ?

    DoctorBill

    My bad. Just the way I read your post I thought you were compressing the powder with the bullet.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Semtav - Nice avatar picture !

    No need to compress the BP with only 50 grains....I think !

    Could be a tad of compression going on, but I can't feel any
    resistance on the RCBS Press Lever.

    The "Stubby" Cast Bullet makes nice holes in Cardboard Targets
    at 100 yards and since it is only 364 grains, 50 grains of BP ought
    to speed it right along !

    Were I to 'Hunt" aminals, I'd use full loads and ~500 grain bullets.

    I should do a velocity measurement with my Chronograph.

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 07-18-2016 at 11:57 AM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check