Lathe Purchase Dilemma

[dsbock]

Plainsman456,

Yup, that's the plan. Bed height of the lathe should be elbow height on me.

I'll post pictures of the bench when I'm done.

Thanks.

David

[Crank]

David,
I saw this thread shortly after you posted it, but didn't feel I had much to add at that point. At this point, congratulations on the new acquisition, you did the right thing since the original question was based on buying this lathe or no lathe at all. Looking back at the number of lathes I have owned over the years is almost disturbing, but it was always a matter of opportunity and what I could afford (usually pretty broke). As others have stated, you will learn with this one, both in the aspect of how to use it, but also how well it meets your needs. That will be invaluable should you later decide that something else will better suit your machining desires. I have had 3 Atlas's, 4 South Bends, Sherline, Enco, Rockwell and finally my "last lathe", a 14x60 Graziano Sag 14. It's 9 feet long, weighs 3000lbs and runs a full 5hp on 3 phase power through a rotary phase converter. Space and finances prevented owning something this massive in the past, so all of those others in the past helped me learn what was going to suit my needs later in life. The others have confirmed the truth, the lathe is the cheap part, tooling will be where you can go crazy spending money, so buy prudently and keep you eyes open for other lathes that come available. Sometimes you can buy them with a bonanza of tooling, keep the tooling and then re-sell the lathe to offset the cost. Keep it fun and enjoy the opportunity to learn. I wish you the best.

Mark

[bob208]

check out the you videos I posted about. the guy shows you how to make most of the tooling for your lathe. even a milling attachment and steady rest. right now I have a guy coming to my place and I am teaching him to run a lathe and mill. after a year he got a south bend 9" with the long bed and a Rockwell vertical mill. now when he comes I have him making tooling he needs for his machines. when I was learning tool making we made most of our own tooling.

[Frank46]

While the trend today is carbide tooling I bought my first lathe just after I got out of the navy. So started learning how to grind my own tool bits and was cheaper than carbide. Good practice and suprisingly they worked very well. The lathe mentioned is a craftsman 6"x20" one and still have all the gears, tooling I bought and just about all the goodies that they offered at the time. Frank

[Bent Ramrod]

The advantage of carbide tooling is speed and heavier cuts. Small lathes don't have the rigidity to work these advantages in most cases, and a chipped or broken edge is the frequent result. A few "quality import" brazed-insert carbide tools are handy to have around, though, if you encounter an unexpectedly hard piece of metal you don't want to bother annealing.

Oh, I forgot--get a copy of Machinery's Handbook. Used book stores frequently have older copies cheap in their Technology sections. All the Good Stuff there in one volume.

[Kilroy08]

For the smaller lathes learning how to grind various tools out of high speed steel is very important. As Bent Ramrod stated, carbide tooling can be problematic in the smaller machines. Rigidity AND tool pressure come in to play here.

Check out mrpete222 on youtube. His channel is a free college level education in how to be a machinist.

[dsbock]

I'll keep my eyes open for a copy of "Machinery's Handbook" in my travels.

I have a grinder and have been reading up on grinding HSS tools for a while. I'm prepared to ruin a bunch before I get any right.

I've been following Lyle (mrpete222) for a while now. I've learned so much from his videos. He picked up the Craftsman version of the 618 and will be doing a series of videos on it as time permits.

Thanks all.

David

[Clark]

Here are some pictures of the Atlas 618 I bought.

I got a 1938 Atlas Craftsman 12x36 lathe when my age 57 friend died in 2005 of a heart attack while hunting. He had put Timken tapered roller bearings and shims in it.
I forget what I paid the widow.
I put a Pac Nor 270 barrel on a pre 64 Win M70 and shot 9 mule deer with it.
I put a fat barrel on a 243 Mauser with it.
I put a skinny barrel on a 243 Mauser with it.
I put a fat 6mmBR barrel on a Sav 99 with it.
I put a 308 barrel on a Mausers with it.
I put another 308 barrel on a Mauser with it.

I gave the lathe to a guy I hunt with. He makes car parts with it.

I can remember some of the limitations.
At cutting threads and chamber on a barrel, it takes twice as long as a big powerful heavy lathe.
Any barrel material larger than the 0.78" hole in the headstock is going to be out in the steady rest.
It would take forever to remove pounds of steel to make a big barrel vise or action wrench.



I made a spider for it.

[dsbock]

Here are some pictures of the bench I'm making for my lathe. Made from 2x10 lumber and 3/4" plywood. The top (almost finished) is doubled 3/4" plywood with pine trim at the outer edges.

[dsbock]

The bench is built and the lathe is mounted and (as best as I can tell) leveled. And yes, that is an old coffee can used as a cover for the reversing switch. The previous owner made it and I decided it had to stay.

[Kilroy08]

Looking good!

For teaching yourself to grind tools from HSS blanks, grab some cheap 1018 3/8" square stock and use that to practice grinding the profiles.

[No Blue]

I looked at a little bigger Atlas about 30 years ago; 12x36. Nice shape and had the standard tooling that most came from the factory with. But he wanted $1500, which is about $3000 in todays money. So I looked, found a Frejoth 13x39, Taiwan, fully tooled with the cabinet/stand 2hp motor and 1 yr old for $2500. This lathe was $4900 new.Back then everything cost at least twice what you'd pay today. Just didn't have the competition, they didn't know how to make it fast and accurate because CNC was still just for the really big guys. They made it on manual machines and then scraped the ways to get it straight and level, or a surface grinder like Frejoth. They were the wholesale manufacturer for a lot of the labels you see in this country.

But when I was looking, anything a hobby guy would like was top dollar. The big lathes were selling for about scrap value unless they were a Monarch or some Swiss or German tool room lathe. Those were big bucks. If two guys with a length of 4x4 wood and some chain could lift it, price was way up. I had to use my engine hoist to lift and move the Frejoth, and that would limit where I could sell it.

I also bought a SB 9x18 about 20 years ago, that's perfect for most home shops. Enough power for most jobs, 120v, 2 guys can lift it. That was encouraging to hear how much those puppies are selling for, mine was $500 with the 3 and 4 jaws, face plate, taper, expanding mandrels, probably 200 pounds of tooling.

The electric motor is this odd ball they don't make anymore; repulsion induction or something like that. It has a handle on one end that rotates the brush holders. At one extreme it's full speed clockwise, and as I rotate the handle the other way, the motor slows down, stops and reverses direction until it's full speed counter clockwise. Perfect for a lathe.

You got the same library I got, I found Ebay single point boring bars out of China were a deal for the hobby guy.

Have fun!

[dsbock]

Completed my first project on the lathe.

The ball crank on the compound rest was missing the nut. I found a nut with the same thread, chucked it up in the three jaw and turned it down to the correct diameter. Worked like a charm. I had some chatter at first, but I adjusted the cutter angle and everything smoothed up. Nice finish and everything.

I still have much to learn, but I'm getting there.

David

[snowwolfe]

I admire you for starting this new hobbie. Always wanted a lathe when I was younger but now feel like I am to old to take advantage of one.

[dsbock]

Snowwolfe,

We're never too old to learn something new. My father is 79 years old and started learning about (and selling) newly developed medical devices.

Give it a try, see whether you like it or not.

David

[fiberoptik]

Used same in high school (South Bend)


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[fiberoptik]

Then moved to a Monarch. BBBBBbbbbbIIIIIIIGGGG!


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[ricksplace]

Try these folks for chinese tooling

cdcotools.com
wttool.com

I tried a 5" 3 jaw chuck from cdco. After careful fitting to a new backing plate, it runs at .0015" tir on my southbend 9a. It is rated at .003 tir. Chuck and a new backing plate was less than 100 bucks.

Wholesale tool has about the best prices on 1/4" hss tool bits.

[dsbock]

Ricksplace,

Thanks for the websites. I'll take a look at them for a four jaw chuck.

David