Should you use 2F, or 1F black powder for 577/450 Martini Henry Ammunition?

[blabablab]

Good Afternoon All,
I heard from IV8888 on youtube that the original military 577/450 load used single F black powder. Is this true? Also, since I am loading my own ammo for this, would you recommend 1F, 1 1/2F, or 2F black powder? Thanks!

[pdgh59]

More knowledgeable people than I have stated that 1F is closer in size to the powder used by the British than what 2F is. I have bought some Wano P (better quality than F) to see if this is indeed the case. Also as there are larger gaps between grains of 1F than that of 2F the flame from the primer is said to more easily reach and burn the powder. An engineer told me this is called flame propagation.

[curator]

Blabablab,

I would chose between FFg or Fg black powder based on the cartridge cases I had to load. Bertram and Jamison brass have somewhat thick walls and solid base so only holds about 85 grains of either grade powder. I load mine with this charge of FFg Goex. CBC brass cases converted from 24 gauge brass shot shells are quite thin walled and folded head. They will easily hold 110-115 grains of either grade of powder. These cases are no way as strong as the Jamison/Bertram cases so I load these using Fg. Keeping charges to 85 grains and using corn meal or dacron fluff to fill the remaining airspace. Original British black powder in the 1880s was very high quality compared to what we have today (with the possible exception of Swiss-brand) The bottle necked case of the 577-450 was designed to give as much velocity to the 480 grain bullet as was possible using black powder. Their Fg grade is probably the equivalent of our modern Goex FFg.

I often use Olde Eynsford 1 1/2Fg to load for my Martini Henry MkIV, using CBC converted brass. I keep the charge to 75 grains with cornmeal filler and shoot a 425 grain paper patched bullet. This burns clean and is quite accurate if you don't mind the recoil. I often wonder how Little Tommy Atkins survived the beating from his Martini Henry.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I use 70gns Wano PP with a 500gn cast projectile and cornmeal filler

[dromia]

I find Swiss No4 1 1/2fg just perfect for this cartridge.

[Desertbuck]

I'm using 85gr Goex FG, half a ball of cotton wool, card disc, grease cookie, another card disc, and a .457 lee 480gr PP to .466.
I have not used commercial FFG. However my homemade gunpowder is close to FFG however it was made by dampening it with water and adding 3% dextrin then simply pushing it through a screen to granulat it. A case plumful end up weighing right around 80gr. The recoil is noticeably sharper but manageable. I think either one will work just fine. FFG will just have a tad bit more recoil than FG. I can't comment on velocity differences I don't own a chronograph.

[superc]

It maybe heresy but for the past year I have been using 85gr of Goex FFF (yes, 3 F) with no problems.

[JSnover]

It maybe heresy but for the past year I have been using 85gr of Goex FFF (yes, 3 F) with no problems.

I got ten pounds of 3F dirt cheap and have been using it in my 45-70 without any trouble. When it runs out I'll try the 'right' stuff.

[enfield]

I use 85 Gr 2F, 3 mini wheat's and 2 scoops of raisin's and , oh wait that's a baking recipe. I'll get back to ya.

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=curator;3710277]Blabablab,

I would chose between FFg or Fg black powder based on the cartridge cases I had to load. Bertram and Jamison brass have somewhat thick walls and solid base so only holds about 85 grains of either grade powder. I load mine with this charge of FFg Goex. CBC brass cases converted from 24 gauge brass shot shells are quite thin walled and folded head. They will easily hold 110-115 grains of either grade of powder. These cases are no way as strong as the Jamison/Bertram cases so I load these using Fg. Keeping charges to 85 grains and using corn meal or dacron fluff to fill the remaining airspace. Original British black powder in the 1880s was very high quality compared to what we have today (with the possible exception of Swiss-brand) The bottle necked case of the 577-450 was designed to give as much velocity to the 480 grain bullet as was possible using black powder. Their Fg grade is probably the equivalent of our modern Goex FFg.

Used to be that Curtiss and Harveys was the gold standard for European blackpowder - yes it was high quality - consistent and pretty clean burn (I had some back in the good ole days) but it was slower burning - and generated less pressure - than did Goex - Wano powder when it came available was regarded as very similar - burn rate/velocity to C&H - so unless GoEx has deteriorated substantially since the Moosic plant blew up I reckon I would reverse your numbers and say that GoEx Fg at least as quick as C&H FFg. I shot that old GoEx for a dozen years or more and had ample opportunity to compare to Wano along the way - didnt see much of the Curtiss and Harvey but old timers used to say the Dupont was quicker than it. All water under the bridge now (or powder up in smoke!). But I believe if it was me shooting the 450/577 I would be looking for Fg to quieten the recoil a bit.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

No choice really!

[John Boy]

I heard from IV8888 on youtube that the original military 577/450 load used single F black powder. Is this true?

You heard correctly ...
The answer is 90gr of Fg for both the 480 & 325gr bullets with 1350 & 1600 fps respectively
But, as said ... Whatever floats your boat doing as you want and all the contrary thread posts

[Boz330]

Best group I ever got at 100yd was with canon grade, but it fouled out pretty fast. I gave up on it for that reason.
This is a group at 100yd using 65gr 2f and 20gr of a 50-50 mix of 3f and cream of wheat. The idea being that the COW is burned up by the 3F and not producing a potential plug out of the COW. There are a number of folks that think that is BS and advise against it. Personally I have never had any problem with it.
The CBC brass will hold every bit of 115gr and the recoil is stout. The Brits would use wool as a filler over the 85gr of powder. I have used Kapok but accuracy suffered.
I have been making my own BP for several years and the density isn't nearly what commercial powder is and that will be my next project when I get rountoit.

Bob