Getting ready to buy a heavy barrel varmint rifle in 223. Recommendations?

[DerekP Houston]

Awesome job shooting, thanks for the range report!

[B. Lumpkin]

Great shooting rifles and thank you for the constant updates and pictures!

[toallmy]

Glad to hear that they are both shooting very good for you .

[osteodoc08]

Awesome shooting Taz.

Ive got a Remington Varmint with 1:12 barrel. It seems to like the 50-52gr bullets so far. I need to get rid of the flimsy cheapie stock and get me a laminate and bed it.

[tazman]

I got back to the range again today with more testing ammunition.
The Savage 25 continues to shoot well with the heavier bullets. Not so much with the 55 grain and under bullets. I ran some 69 grain Sierra match hollow points through the rifle with excellent groups. Basically one hole up to 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. At 200 yards the groups were slightly under 1 inch. I had one 3 shot group that was just a slightly enlarged hole at 100.
The 60 grain and 65 grain bullets continue to shoot well. The 65 grain Sierra spitzer is shooting as well as anything I have put through the rifle.

The Ruger does it's best with Hornady 52 grain match hollow points and Sierra 55 grain Blitzking bullets. I have tried Hornady 55 fmj and 55 Spire bullets using several different powder charges and they just don't group as well as the others. Not terrible, just not as good as the other two. With heavier bullets(60 grains and up) the accuracy isn't there at all.
With the match bullet and the Sierra bullet, the rifle shoots 1/2 inch to 3/4 at 100 yards and about 1 to 1 and 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards.

I think I have found the best loads for the rifles at this point. I will continue to experiment periodically as the opportunity arises, but will concentrate on what works in each rifle for now.

[DerekP Houston]

Thanks for saving all the time experimenting with rounds for me now i know what to load for mine when I get around to it .

[tazman]

Thanks for saving all the time experimenting with rounds for me now i know what to load for mine when I get around to it .

No problem. Glad to help.
By the way, I am getting my best results with BLC-2 and H335. The BLC-2 with the heavier bullets in the Savage and either powder with the lighter bullets in the Ruger.
I also tried H322, Win748, and IMR3031. The latter three powders gave decent results, just not as good as the other 2. I would have tried Varget, CFE223, and Benchmark but they were not available at the time I bought the others.
If the CFE223 really does keep brass buildup from occurring, it would be a great powder to use for prairie dog loads where you will be shooting a lot.

[Mauser48]

No problem. Glad to help.
By the way, I am getting my best results with BLC-2 and H335. The BLC-2 with the heavier bullets in the Savage and either powder with the lighter bullets in the Ruger.
I also tried H322, Win748, and IMR3031. The latter three powders gave decent results, just not as good as the other 2. I would have tried Varget, CFE223, and Benchmark but they were not available at the time I bought the others.
If the CFE223 really does keep brass buildup from occurring, it would be a great powder to use for prairie dog loads where you will be shooting a lot.

I have been using cfe 223 and it is dirtier than w748 or h335. Im still a fan of w748. You can get very good with velocity cfe 223 but it is dirty. I'd love to try it with some 40 grainers in a bolt gun. If you see it get it, form an opinion yourself. Good shooting!

[tazman]

This will most likely be my last update post in this thread since things are settling into a pattern for me, and future changes won't come as often or be as dramatic.
The Savage continues to shoot outstanding groups with the Sierra 65 grain SPBT with BLC-2( 5 round groups at 200 yards measuring about 1.5 inches or less, usually about 1 inch). The 69 grain Sierra Matchkings still shoot well also. I tried some Hornady 62 grain FMJ bullets today that shot very nearly as well and are much cheaper, so I think I have found my practice load for this rifle. I can save the Gamekings and Matchkings for really serious work.
The Ruger still shoots well with the Sierra 55 grain Blitzking but it makes the round too expensive for practice(I like to shoot a lot). I am getting the same accuracy with the Hornady 52 grain match hollowpoint at a much better price point so I think I will use those for practice. I just can't get the 55 grain FMJ bullets to work well enough to warrant using them for a cheap practice round. I found a source for Hornady 55 grain spire point flat base bullets at a good price. They are shooting nearly as well as the Sierra bullets so I may have a good practice load there. I may try some of the Hornady 50 grain Vmax bullets just to see if they shoot as well as the 55 grain Sierra bullets but I am not certain it is worth the effort.
I am settling on BLC-2 s my powder of choice. I found an 8lb jug for about $150 this week so I have enough to keep me in ammunition for a while.
I have been using Hoppes Benchrest solvent to try and keep copper fouling from building up in the barrels. So far it seems to be working as my accuracy has not dropped off. I am ordering a couple of other recommended copper fouling removers just as a precaution and will try them and see if they do a better job.
I know I would not have been able to develop these loads and have this success without the information and advice available on this site.
Thanks to you all for the advice and knowledge you have shared. It is much appreciated.
tazman

[Greg S]

Find yourself a used Rem 700 PSS in 223 with a 26" tube. You can shoot varmints, coyotes and long range with a 4-16 or 6-24 and with a fast 1-9 twist it'll still stabilize a Sierra 77 or 80 with a truckload of varget or H322. Add a lighter trigger return spring or an aftermarket trigger and your good to go.

[sghart3578]

I know I'm late to the party but I came across a used Savage model 12 with a nice Hakko made Tasco scope. It shoots everything I put in it.

I like to sit at my local outdoor range and hit clay pigeons and bowling pins at 300 meters.

With it's twist rate it definitely prefers heavier bullets and the standard bulk buy Hornady 55 gr FMJ's are just okay. But still better than I can shoot.

Attachment 173922

[B. Lumpkin]

BL-C(2) is a good powder for the 223. I like it because of consistent metering. Makes reloading on a progressive easy, and speeds up single stage loading due to very consistent drops.

The only issue I've had with BL-C(2) is when loading on the ragged edge. On hot days, with a hot chamber, you can run into increased pressure issues. It's best to do load development on hot days when going for max or max+ loads, or stay a tic below max.

[tazman]

BL-C(2) is a good powder for the 223. I like it because of consistent metering. Makes reloading on a progressive easy, and speeds up single stage loading due to very consistent drops.

The only issue I've had with BL-C(2) is when loading on the ragged edge. On hot days, with a hot chamber, you can run into increased pressure issues. It's best to do load development on hot days when going for max or max+ loads, or stay a tic below max.

Those reasons and the fact that it is available here is why I am using BLC-2. I am loading a full grain below max after working up. I hit the sweet spot in my both rifles right there although with different bullets. I tried the heavier charges but it didn't improve anything. Temperatures were in the high 80s and low 90s when I did my testing so I don't expect any problems.
I did finally come up with a sub minute of angle load for my Ruger 77 varminter. It is a load of BLC-2 and the Hornady 52 grain match hollow point. The Sierra 55 grain Blitzking also shoots sub minute and only 1/2 inch from the Hornady match at 100 yards. I just move the windage 2 clicks when changing ammo and I am ready to go.

[tazman]

I finally found a tack driver load for the Ruger 77 MarkII. I haven't been able to get 55 grain or heavier bullets to shoot in this rifle so I tried a 50 grain Hornady Vmax boat tail.
I loaded it over 25.5 grains of BLC-2 in mixed range brass.
This is how it shot
.Attachment 174788Three of the groups measure 1 inch or less. I fired the center then the two groups on the right then the ones on the left. As the barrel heated up, the groups opened up slightly.
The best part is this target was shot at 200 yards!
15 shots under 1.5 inches at 200 yards is as good as it gets for me.

[Scharfschuetze]

You've got the touch Taz.

[osteodoc08]

Definitely nice shooting

[clydesdalekevin]

Awesome thread! I just picked up a Savage 112 in .223 myself. Already glass bedded, heavy barrel, and an incredible trigger (I haven't shot it yet, but the pull is light and the break is crisp and clean). Synthetic stock. It came with a Bushnell scope just like the one you are using, marked Made In Japan. So...how do I determine rate of twist using the cleaning rod method? The twist looks tight when looking down the barrel, but it isn't marked on the receiver like the newer Savage rifles. The rifle looks brand new, but is definitely an older model. I'm assuming early 2000's, since it is labeled 112 on the receiver, and not 12. Thanks!

[charlie b]

For twist fit a tight patch in the barrel. Mark the top of the cleaning rod at the handle and where it enters the receiver. Push the patch in the barrel until the mark at the handle is on top again. Then mark where the rod is at the receiver.

Measure the distance between the two receiver marks. This is the rate of twist (1 turn in x inches).

Last fall I bought a Savage Axis II that is .223 in heavy barrel, from Walmart no less. I have tried cheap Hornady 55gn bullets and they did not go much better than 2MOA. Sierra 69gn Matchkings shoot better than I do. I have had several TEN round groups less than 1MOA and one group was 0.69". I had good luck with H335 but Varget seems better. I am going to try some other bullets to see if I can find some that will do as well as the Sierra's, and don't cost as much

I also tried some factory ammo. Federal Match (also 69gn Matchkings) fires at less than 1 MOA as well.

FWIW, I do not notice any changes in group size or location on target as the day goes on. I do not rapid fire and usually only shoot 5 or 10 rounds before taking a short break so the barrel does not get too hot to touch.

And, yes, the Accutrigger is really nice too

[mpkunz]

I have two bolt guns from Patriot Valley Arms. One in 6.5 Creedmoor and one in .22-250 AI. Both built on Rem 700 actions. I took a muley in Montana on Nov. 5 last fall from 883 yards with a single shot from the 6.5 Creedmoor. http://patriotvalleyarms.com/ Check him out on Sniper's Hide or AR15.com, his guns are steadily winning more and more competitions as word spreads.

[tazman]

About this time a year ago, the Ruger 77 quit shooting good groups. I did everything I could to make it better but no go. It went down the road.
I picked up a new Savage model 12 heavy barrel to replace it. I spent a little time last summer getting it broken in and shooting to my satisfaction.
The new rifle shoots the same loads the model 25 does just as well. I can now load the same ammunition for both rifles and shoot the same size groups with either rifle.
I am beginning to get quite fond of Savage rifles.
I now own five of them in four calibers and they all shoot extremely well.