Getting ready to buy a heavy barrel varmint rifle in 223. Recommendations?

[Artful]

Where's our pictures? Does it look like the top or the middle one?

[tazman]

Sorry about the picture thing. It looks like the top rifle in your picture.

[tazman]

Here is a picture of the Savage 25 with a Bushnell Banner 6-24X40mm on it

Here is my new(to me) Ruger 77 MarkII target/varminter in 223 that just came home with me today. It also wears a Bushnell Banner6-24X40
Attachment 172683
I was enjoying shooting the Savage so much that this one called to me. It will give me something to shoot while the barrel on the other rifle cools.
I picked up a small variety of bullets to try in the two guns. I suspect the Ruger will be restricted to the lighter bullets since it has a 1 in 12 twist as opposed to the 1 in 9 the Savage uses.
The Bullets I got were, 52 grain Hornady match HPBT, 55 grain FMJ, 55 grain Sierra Blitz king, 60 grain Hornady Varminter HP plain base, and 65 grain Sierra Gameking SPBT. I couldn't find any 68-69 grain match bullets locally. If the 65 grain bullets work well, I may order some 69 grain on line.
I am loading up some midrange loads with each bullet to see how they work in the rifles.
The powders I was able to find were Win 748, BLC2, and H322. I already have some IMR 3031 but since it is not a ball powder, I am saving it for the 30-06 since I already have a killer load for it there.
I may try a few loads later on with it.

[Scharfschuetze]

You're the man Taz. Two new rifles in a week.

Looks like you're on the right track with your components. It'll take you the rest of the summer to work out all the permutations in the offering.

[tazman]

You're the man Taz. Two new rifles in a week.

Looks like you're on the right track with your components. It'll take you the rest of the summer to work out all the permutations in the offering.

That's the plan. I will take the best results with the new loadings and buy larger quantities and further refine the loads until I reach the best group I can get with each rifle.
I am looking forward to the research.
By the way, neither rifle was brand new, only new to me, but they looked like they had never been shot when I picked them up. The previous owner certainly had never hurt them.
They were both in the gun store when I purchased the Savage. I just couldn't stop thinking about the Ruger.
If one is substantially better than the other I might trade the poorer one off. If they both shoot really well, I will keep them and try to wear them out.

[Scharfschuetze]

I will keep them and try to wear them out.

Lots of fun that.

The .223 has very good barrel life and they are fun and economical to shoot. I've managed to wear out a couple match rifle barrels and a couple of varmint rifle barrels on various .223 rifles. I've shot everything from picket pin ground squirrels to deer and antelope with the cartridge and it's always been spot on when using the proper bullet for the game in the sights.

[tazman]

I made it to the range with both rifles yesterday. I found out the scope on the Ruger had a windage adjustment problem and would not stay locked for more than about 4 shots.
Turns out the adjustment mechanism had come loose internally(research on internet indicates this). When it did stay put, the bullets shot groups slightly under 1 inch with most bullet weights except for the Hornady FMJ which didn't group well with either rifle.
As a surprise, the Sierra 65 grain BTSP shot the best in BOTH rifles. I was expecting it to do well in the Savage but not in the Ruger's 1 in 12 twist barrel. That was a pleasant surprise. I was getting about 3/4 inch 4 shot groups with that bullet.
I spent today getting a new scope for the Ruger. I ended up with a Leupold 6-18x40mm with adjustable objective and mil dots. They have a great reputation so I hope it works like it should.
The shop where I purchased the bad scope gave me a full refund to use against the Leupold with hardly any questions asked. Nice people. They reminded me of why I do business there.
I need to go to my reloading room and get some more ammo loaded up to test now that I have some indications of what works.

[Scharfschuetze]

Good choice on the new scope. I really like mil dot reticle after using them extensively in the military. The Leopold 6-18 should allow you to shoot about anything, at any range the round will hit at and in any atmospheric condition. Lower power is often the key in heavy mirage, snow flurries or misting rain.

I once worked up loads for my Dad's Ruger Model 77. It had a 1 in 9" twist. I guess somewhere along the line Ruger changed over to the faster twist. Probably in the mid 80s when the military adopted the green tip 63 grain bullet for the M16 A2 rifle. My Ruger Mini 14 that I bought in 1975 had a 1 in 12" twist.

[tazman]

I really don't know when this Ruger was manufactured. Since it is a MarkII that would cut down the time a bit. It definitely is a 1 in 12 twist. I have checked it twice.
If this rifle was in it's original box, it would pass for new.
I made up some more loads today. I will have to wait a couple of days to get back to the range. The range I frequent is having a regional high power rifle match this weekend. Monday will be a bit of a wait but it will come soon enough.

[Scharfschuetze]

Regarding the scope, I should have mentioned that using the mil dot reticle to range with may be dependent on your powder setting. Depending of the reticle's location in the scope, it may or may not magnify with power. Check the manual that came with the scope and see what power Leuopold recommends for ranging with your 6 X 18. Probably 10 power at a guess.

[tazman]

This one has a turret knob that has a marked dial on it for yardage already figured for a 223 with 55 grain bullet at 3100 fps. I haven't looked at the instructions for using the dots to range with yet. Until I get things sighted in and find "the load" I am not going to worry about it too much.
With the dials so easy to use and accessible, I can write down the adjustment for the different impact points and be able to do a quick setting change for the ammo I will be using on a given day. From what I am seeing, the impact point shifts due to bullet weight changes are not very far. Less than 2 inches at 100 yards. I just need to remember to set the dial back to zero after changing things for a different load.

[Scharfschuetze]

Once you get comfortable with the scope, you'll enjoy learning how to use the mil dots. One milradian is at a coarse average 3.5 MOA. That gives you right at 35 MOA and windage hold off capability for long range shooting.

If your scope is set at the power to correctly use the mil dot reticle accurately, you can avoid a lot of dial turning by using the mil dots to adjust for trajectory and wind deflection as well as using them to determining range. It's a very useful and flexible reticle.

[tazman]

That sounds interesting, and very useful. I think I need to study the instructions to see just what this is capable of.

[unclemikeinct]

Congrats & getting two with two diff twist rates: really lets you try many options in bullet choices...Good Shooting Sir...Mike in Ct

[Shiloh]

I have an older varmint barrel Remington 700 about 27 years old. Been chasing the throat for a while now. 3/4" on a regular basis when new, is now
sub 1 1/2"

Shiloh

[tazman]

I had an outstanding trip to the range today. Both rifles were working well and the new scope worked fantastic.
I shot some Hornady 55 grain fmj to get the Ruger sighted in, then shot for groups with different styles of bullets. The rifle performed well with the 55 grain selection I had with me. Not so much with the heavier bullets, but that was to be expected with the twist this rifle has. I tested three different powders(BL-C2, H322, and H335) with the 55 grain bullets with the groups being about the same for all powders. The impact point was the same as well for all powders.
I shot a group with the Sierra 65 grain BTSP through the Ruger but didn't save the target since it did so poorly(about 2.5 inches at 100 yards).
Here are a couple of pictures of the groups with the Ruger.
Attachment 172985Attachment 172986
The first target was fired at 100 yards, the second at 200 yards. When I measured them, I found I was doing better than I thought just looking through the scope. The left bullet on the top left target was all me. I just pulled it out there.

This next target was shot with the Savage 25. This load was with Sierra 65 grain BTSP bullets. I had just finished shooting a very small group at 100 yards at a target that already had a bunch of hole in it( I didn't save that one), and moved to the 200 yard target.
This target is 3 shots at 200 yards. The grid is 1 inch squares. Group size is approximately 3/4 inch.
Attachment 172988
I think I found the magic combination for this rifle. I have seldom fired a group that tight even at 100 yards. Doing it a 200 yards makes me very happy.
After shooting this group, I put the rifle away and didn't test it with the lighter bullets.
With the Ruger doing well with the lighter bullets, I may just leave the Savage for this load.

I got to help a couple of new shooters sight in their rifles while I was there. I even demonstrated the difference between cheap store ammo and good handloads to one of the men. The group size difference was significant. Think a factor of 3. I may have gotten him thinking about reloading.
All in all, A great day at the range.

[Scharfschuetze]

Super duper Taz.

What did Hannibal say years ago? "I just love it when a plan comes together."

[RPRNY]

That 200 yard group load is a KEEPER! The LV25 is ugly and looks cheap but the barrels are first class and they SHOOT.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk

[Mauser48]

Tikka t3 varmint or build one.

[tazman]

I had a chance to get back to the range today(wife had a hair appt.) so I took the 2 varminters back for a confirmation test.
The Savage 25 still shoots the 65 grain Sierra into one hole at 100 and about 3/4 inch at 200. This with one warming shot them 3 at 100 and 3 at 200. I was worried it would be a fluke. No longer worried.
I tested it with some of the 55 grain bullets and only one did almost as well as the 65 grain bullets. Not sure I am going to continue with the lighter bullets in this rifle.
The Ruger shot really well from a cold barrel for the first 10 shots. Then it opened up a little. After cooling down it went back to tight groups for about 6 shots. Looks like I will have to keep this one cool to get the best out of it. With the cool barrel, I was getting about 3/4 inch at 100yd. At 200yd I was able to put 15 shots into a 3 inch circle using 3 different bullets and loads. This gun shoots all the 55 grain bullets into the same group so far.
I tried some 53 grain match bullets in the Ruger as well. From a cold barrel They shot 1/2 inch at 100yd. I didn't test them at 200 because the range got busy and I had no more targets posted at 200. I didn't want to stop the line just to post one target. I need to leave some testing for later anyway.
This is getting to be a lot of fun. I don't think I have ever shot groups as good as these. Probably a combination of better equipment and a better range bench setup. My trigger control is better now than it has ever been though my eyes are getting worse.
Thanks for all your encouragement.