Getting ready to buy a heavy barrel varmint rifle in 223. Recommendations?

[buggybuilder]

I would recommend the Savage 12 FCV. This model has the aluminum bedding block that will give you great accuracy. No need to glass bed these. With handloads I can cut 5 shot groups into one ragged hole at 100 yds. I also have the Hog Hunter in a 223 that I use for deer. I glass bedded it and my groups are no more that an inch at 100 yds. I say get the Savage 12 with the aluminum bedding blosk. You won't be sorry!

[tazman]

I took the Savage 25 to the range today. It came with a Tasco 2.5-10X42 on it. This turned out to be a poor choice for this rifle. The scope wouldn't hold a zero for me and the adjustments were very imprecise and inconsistent. All the problems were with the horizontal adjustments. Groups were spreading sideways up to 3 inches or more at 100 yards but stayed within 1 inch vertically..
After considerable frustration, I removed the scope and installed a good quality Bushnell 6-24x40 with adjustable objective on it. 5 shots later I was sighted in at 100 yards.
The ammo I was using today was not intended for precise shooting at 100 yards and beyond. It was also loaded for a much different rifle than this one is.
At 100 yards, I was getting 1.5 inch groups easily and repeatably. Oddly, I found that at 200 yards the groups were only slightly larger. Apparently the quote about aim small, miss small actually works.
This rifle also shoots better with a cold or at least cool barrel but that is not an uncommon thing.
I had some ammo that was loaded with Win 748 and some 52 grain match bullets. This ammo did better but still wasn't tailored for this rifle and didn't shoot as well as I think this rifle will be able to do.
The only issue I had with the rifle itself was the magazine. It is plastic and isn't built nearly sturdy enough. Due to the magazine's flexibility, there were a few failures to pickup a round when working the action. That leaves something to be desired. At some point, I hope a metal magazine becomes available for this rifle.
This rifle has a 1 in 9 twist. How heavy a bullet can I stabilize in this barrel?
I am thinking about trying some 68/69 grain match bullets and need to know if I will be wasting my time with them.

[toallmy]

You can probably put em in a inch or better with a tuned in load . Good for you .

[shdwlkr]

I have a marlin x7vh in .223 with a 26 inch bull barrel and plan on shooting 70 grain maybe even 75 grain bullets OH it is 1in9 twist. Each rifle is it own when it comes to what works well, try and see if it likes heavy bullets then see just how heavy it likes and accept that, no way to tell until you run some down the barrel. I had a savage 340V in 225winchester with 1in14 twist that liked 70 grain speer bullets years ago

[John D]

I've had good success with a Savage LRPV 223 after shooting Remington 700VS rifles for several decades.

Attachment 172248

I have a Savage LRPV in .223. Very happy with it!!

[Scharfschuetze]

Well, I'm late to the thread as I've spent the last week in the Rocky Mountain States shooting prairie dogs on my annual summer road trip.

It looks like you've made your decision already so I'll just type an addendum to the thread and hope that your new rifle is a shooter.

Over the years I've used Remington HB varminters in .223, Colt AR 15 match rifles as well as Sakos in .222 and .223 on varmints. All worked very well out to 300 yards or so with 53 grain Match Kings on prairie dogs. Need to rebarrel my current Sako someday and get it back in service. AR 15 rifles can be extremely accurate and are quite effective on small critters to way out there if they are built right with a good barrel and a well adjusted trigger.

My current .223 bolt rifle is a Winchester Model 70 short action varminter in .223. It's been squared and the barrel set back and a tight chamber cut. It's also built to fire the National Match course with Redfield International sights, front and rear. A clip guide replaces the rear scope base in match rifle guise and it has a full length accessory rail under the heavy forearm for a hand stop. That hand stop also mounts the bipod with a QD device as shown in the photo below for varmint hunting.

It's pretty versatile and accurate, although it needs a faster twist barrel to handle the 80 grain MKs if I want to shoot it past 600 yards.

Here's the Winchester this last week up on the High-Lonely cooling its heels... I mean barrel.

[Scharfschuetze]

I am thinking about trying some 68/69 grain match bullets and need to know if I will be wasting my time with them.

Your 1 in 9" barrel will do just fine with the 68/69 grain match bullets. 75 grain bullets will start to challenge your particular twist rate. On the other hand, 1 in 9" is a good compromise for shooting everything from 52 grain bullets up to some of the 75 grain slugs.

The Winchester Model 70 that I posted about above, is a 1 in 9" twist barrel and is happiest with 60 grain bullets which it will drop into 10 shots groups of 1/2 MOA. Lighter and heavier bullets will group slightly larger. Of course every rifle is a law unto itself.

[tazman]

That's what I wanted to know. Thank you.

The name of this game is accuracy.
I realize that each rifle makes it's own rules. I am looking for a general consensus here.
I am thinking of using H335 in this cartridge. How well does this powder work?
Is there another powder that will work better?

[runfiverun]

335 is a good choice.
I use a lot of H-322 and AA-2230 the 2230 is a ball powder and it flows through measures like the proverbial water.
but since I run a Dillon quite often it's a good match.

748 does well for a number of guy's and some like varget, Benchmark is an overlooked powder by many but it has been around quite a while and will shoot as good as anything.
I think xbr8208 is a copy of the benchmark.

for a quick test of what the rifle will like try some 50 and some 60gr V-max's the rifle will probably show an affinity for one or the other and should point you in the right direction.
or hopefully it'll be like my AR and you can't tell one from the other except in poi.

[robg]

My tikka t3, 1 in 9 shoots 50- 69gr bullets well but the 69 sierra match is its favourite with tac or reloader 15.

[Clay M]

I have had good luck with Benchmark, and H 4895.

[tazman]

I think I am going to try to buy several different weights of bullets this weekend and see what I can load up to test. I will also need to find some powder and primers since I am not set up yet to reload for this cartridge. Dies are on order and should be here in 3-5 days.
This is getting very interesting.

[osteodoc08]

That's what I wanted to know. Thank you.

The name of this game is accuracy.
I realize that each rifle makes it's own rules. I am looking for a general consensus here.
I am thinking of using H335 in this cartridge. How well does this powder work?
Is there another powder that will work better?

My 2 go to powders for 223 has been

IMR 8208 XBR
Benchmark

shooting anything from 50-68 gr bullets out of my 1:8 twist Stag Model 6 Super Varminter

[Scharfschuetze]

Taz,

I predict you are going to have a ball with your new rifle.

Regarding powders, I like the ball powders in most of my .223 loads as I load hundreds of rounds at a time on a Dillon press. The ball powders just go through the measure more accurately. Of the ball powders, my favorites for the mid-weight bullets are either H335 or 748. Of course other than lot to lot variations, they are reportedly the same powder. Naturally a quick work up when getting a new lot is always de rigueur.

For heavy bullet long range loads at 600 yards I use VV 140 powder with good results, but when I run out of it, I'll probably try something a little faster like VV 135.

I use GI cases with satisfaction. I have buckets full of the GI cases from my military career so I guess Uncle Sam is still paying the bills in this regard. I only sort by head stamp and for long range cases I'll weigh them and throw out the heaviest and lightest of the lot.

Primers? I've had good results from all the US brands. Lately I've been using the Remington 7 1/2 match primers just because I have a good supply of them.

[M-Tecs]

Per Chris Hodgdon H335 is NOT the same as W748. My source for that is Chris Hodgdon. Unfortunately I lost the email in a hard drive crash.

[Scharfschuetze]

Odd as my loading data verified by chrono data seems to indicate that they are the same or at least very, very similar. The differences between the two were well within what one would consider lot to lot variation. Still, one needs to work up his load whenever a component is changed.

At one time, I bought the H335 for less than $1.50 a pound. Not anymore!

[M-Tecs]

No disagreement that the burning rates are very close . H335 seems to be slightly faster than W748 for me. Chris Hodgdon email stated the coatings are not the same and fouling is somewhat different.

If I remember correctly W748, BLC-2 and H335 are same base powder with different types and amounts of coating.

Burn rate chart from Hodgdon http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn%20Ra...02015-2016.pdf lists H335 at 82 and W748 at 103

[tazman]

Looking at the loading data for those 3 powders on the Hodgdon data site and comparing charge weight/velocity/pressure data on the same cartridge and bullet weight gives inconclusive results as to whether they are the same.
Some scenarios suggest they are the same, others that they are different. They are very close however. The charge weights per volume are also very, very close.
This all suggests that any of these should give similar results in the 223 with similar bullet weights. This opens up my powder search parameters a bit. I now have three choices and it simply depends on which I can find.

I won't be loading them in the quantities you are since I don't have an AR15 style rifle or the occasion to burn through that many rounds. However the ease of measurement still plays an important role in loading.
Since they all seem to work well for accuracy, I think I will use one of them for load development in the near future.
For the time being, I will be working with reduced loads since my current objective is accuracy. Starting loads are often some of the most accurate and consistent loads for any given cartridge.
I am going to attempt to find a selection of suitable bullets and have some fun testing the loads.

[Clay M]

Vit 140 comes highly recommended with the heavier bullets.

[Texas by God]

Tazman - try H335 with the old school 53gr Hornady Match HP. This may be easy. Best, Thomas.