Hunting with a 44 Mag Lever

[Scrumbag]

The rules are a pain but why not use a lighter boolit so you can speed things up .

Yes, went down this route.

So far trying the Hornady XTP 200gr. Not bad result but feeling could be better.

Going to try the 210 gr Sierra JHC next, again with H110. (Rifle prefers the 240gr to 180gr PPU FMJFP I've shot so thinking the heavier bullet might be an answer).

Also to my eye, the bearing surface on the JHC looks a bit longer so might not be a bad thing.

Still wondering if I can get a gas checked bullet at 2,000 fps for a hunting load.

ATB,

Scrummy

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Talking cast bullets here rather then "J" bullets, but I tested during load development 175/180gr cast to the low 1900s from a little RUGER 77/44 rifle. Much better accuracy came at about 1750fps and the two deer I've taken with the rifle both were dead where they stood.

It is kind of like with the 45/70 and people using light for caliber/cartridge bullets in an attempt to flatten the rainbow like trajectory, and yes, I have been there and tried that, if that is the goal with higher velocity and/or lighter bullets, there are just much better cartridges available.

Again with cast bullets and a 45/70, the results with a 465gr Wide Flat Nose cast at 1650fps have been ever so much better then with the 355gr WFN at 2300fps.

Sometimes, light bullet weight, cast or jacketed and higher velocity have little advantage to heavier and slower.

To each his own, just be safe and enjoy!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Scrumbag]

Crusty,

You make many good points. And if I wasn’t trying to make 1,700 ft lbs muzzle energy id happily go for the heavier, slower bullet but in 44 mag it seems the heavier bullets won’t make the ME

[Cast_outlaw]

Well scrumbad according to the calculator I have (link below) your bottom velocity for a 240gr is 1786fps makes exactly 1700ft lb for a cast I don’t have any published data dose that (that dose not mean there is none I just don’t have any) I did get a 240 over 1600 with Alliant reloader 7 in 44-40 but it has a little more capacity oh and yes the action on my gun for it is strong enough for that and it is under max pressure only just but it is so with the higher pressure capabilities of the 44 mag it should be possible best of luck

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bu...tic-energy.php

[Scrumbag]

Hi Cast Outlaw,

Yes the got the formula, my issue is finding data that will get a 240gr. 44 mag to that speed.

ATB,

Scrummy

[Petander]

It's pushing the limits for sure.

Vihtavuori N110 will give you the max.

We have energy limits too, 1250 ftlbs @ 100 meters for whitetail. Impossible to load 357 mag carbine to that, 50 meters is possible with stupid light boolits but well.. we are required to use a 243 at least. These energy rules always prefer light,fast bullets by nature of physics laws. Finnish whitetails just don't die with a 357. That 1250 ftlbs/100m is around 2000 ftlbs / muzzle I guess. Really bad bc:s here with these boolits,though.

While I'm in the "more gun is better" -league, some of these energy rules make no sense to me. Like a typical factory 45-70 ammo, not moose legal in Finland. Not enough energy, 1500 ftlbs required @ 100 m.

I would try N110 if you want to push. It gives 1875 fps in a 20" 357 mag Rossi with 170 grainers with normal OAL,well within CIP. But only halfway whitetail legal, energy-wise.

[Scrumbag]

Hi Petander,

Our laws are just on Muzzle Energy fortunately.

It seems from published data that the way to achieve 1700ftlbs at the muzzle is to use 200gr or 210gr jacketed bullets driven fairly fast. I can't find data from a source I trust that gives me enough velocity. I can get into the high 1600 ftlbs with 240gr bullets but nothing quite hits the limit.

I've used the Hodgdon H110 data and Hornady 200gr XTPs and have some Sierra 210gr JHC I will try next. These do meet the ME requirement with H110 as published. The 200gr XTP give OK accurancy but I have a feeling the 210 might be better.

My rifle certainly prefers 240gr factory ammo to 180gr so suspect that's the way to go.

Scrummy

[Petander]

H110 is good max powder,too. 180 will get your ftlbs. I would use jacketed for deer though...

Here is 240 Lee / Vihtavuori N110 compressed to madness,as an example for what NOT to do:



It's most probably not going to happen with a 240 bullets. QL estimates 357 mag really well with N110, my chronoed velocities match good. Just like 45-70 and 500 that I load cast quite a lot.

[Petander]

Well here you go,240 loaded longer OAL... But only for certain,strong guns.

I wouldn"t try this at home. I shoot a 45-70 and 300 WM,grouse to moose.

[beltfed]

FWIW<
I shot my second last deer with my Orig Win '92, 44WCF
Load was 200gr 429434 HP over 22 gr 4227. Clocks about 1350fps.
About like the original BP loads
One shot thru Heart, out the other side , One Kill.
Deer went about 60-70 yards and dropped dead.
It did the job.
But not like my orig M86 / 457483-385grFP clocking 1750fps
Or my 358 Win, 358218,250 gr Paper Patched , clocking 2350fps
over my Oehler 33
beltfed/arnie

[Norske]

When you shop for a rifle, pay attention to the rifling twist rate. My Super Blackhawk revolvers 1 in 18" twist) love the Lee 310gr bullet, but my Marlin 1894 with its 1 in 38" twist doesn't.

[Scrumbag]

Yeah i understand some of the Winchesters have 1:38" barrels or such and therefore not great for shooting heavier bullets.

My Chiappa is 1:20

[Scrumbag]

Petander, I wonder what powder Buffalo Bore are using. Also what the extraction is like?

Sounds like they are seating the bullet a fair way out of the case if too long for the Henry

[Tripplebeards]

Petander, I wonder what powder Buffalo Bore are using. Also what the extraction is like?

Sounds like they are seating the bullet a fair way out of the case if too long for the Henry

And my guess is they probably don’t group very well in most guns at that velocity. I don’t think they even list what they’ve sized the bullets at either. Imo it’s just a marketing gimmick for someone that doesn’t cast bullets and reload.

[AlaskaMike]

I haven't seen it mentioned, and I apologize if I've missed it, but with the use of those 200 or 210 gr. JHPs I would be concerned that they may be intended to expand at .44 special velocities, and would simply explode at .44 magnum carbine velocity.

Also, I don't know if Alliant 300mp powder is available in the UK, but it appears it can get better velocities with safe pressures than H110. If it's available there, that might be something to look into.

[onelight]

44 mag factory 240jhp can explode from a rifle on deer hunting buddy put one in the shoulder of a medium size white tail , when we peeled the hide it had a fist size cavity right under point of impact part of the core about 135 grains worth was found in under the skin on the off hip he ran about 75 yards no blood trail.
Yup it worked , but expanding pistol bullets at rifle velocities are not a good choice.

[kavemankel]

I have had no issue using 44 Cal. 310g WNFP GC loads in my 77/44 magazines.
These were commercial True Shot.
I do not have a mold for this heavy of a projectile but want one bad. Puts the hurt on pigs, but I haven't got a deer with one.

[lcclower]

I had a '94 Marlin in .44 Mag, 38" twist, micro groove, it would just barely shoot inside 12 inches at 100 yards, slugging the barrel showed it needed a .432 bullet. Starting loads with cast bullet, mold shimmed out with aluminum tape (RCBS 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 44-250-K 44 Caliber (430 Diameter) 250 Grain Keith Type) and sized .433 still shot about a foot at 100. Bore scope showed the barrel was egg shaped under the roll marks and under the dovetail cuts. Rebarreled with a Ballard rifled barrel, slugged .430, loaded with the same bullet (cast with tape removed) sized at .430 grouped about 6 inches. Tightened every screw on the rifle, never did get any better, sold it on gunbroken.
A month later, .30-30, 160 gr soft lead with notebppk paper wrap, 10 gr, Unique, hit a hog broadsides just below the ear and scattered brains out the other.
I'd not encourage fooling with '94 in 44 mag. 444 Marlin, 45/70, yeah. Longer bullets, faster twists. Don't have any experience with the bolt actions in 44 mag.

[Scrumbag]

Hi folks,

Sorry for bringing back a Zombie thread CV19, closures of ranges and travel restrictions here has made getting on with load development and testing a bit difficult.

I have developed a 210gr JHC load with H110 and not bad on paper at 50 yds.

I was more recently thinking, Barnes has load data for the 200gr and 225gr XPB being shot out of 444 Marlin at far great velocities than I could get out of a 44 mag carbine. Wonder if it would be worth a try...

Still is an excuse to by some N110 or Ramshot Enforcer

[robg]

the lockdown is a pain here too .got a few loads to sort out for my 45-70 and 357 mag but cant try them out .