Whitington Buffalo Strategy

[Chill Wills]

I am probably in over my head on this!

I have not shot the buffalo for 10-15 years. When I am down there ten in days I will have to shoot it after one of the matches just to see what is what. I will be shooting my silhouette rifle. 45-70, 73.5gr FF Swiss and Paul Jones Money Bullet. Should be close to what we are talking about too.
I would also like to try the 40-60 Maynard and see how that compares.

One thing to remember - Bc is not linear through all velocity (muzzle to target) and changes dramatically, low to high as the bullet slows below the speed of sound. With the 45-70 there is not much velocity to sluff off to reach this point. Most of the bullets trip to the buffalo will be subsonic and Bc will be very high, comparatively.

[Don McDowell]

I'm still thinking he's going to be close to 200 points on the staff. I am also wondering if starting below 1200 if that bullet will stay stable enough past 900 to make consistent enough strikes to make corrections off of, especially if there's any crosswinds.
Going to be interesting to see what happens.

[TXGunNut]

.....after a fashion, lol. Got to WC at about 5 local time and headed straight for the range. Lighting was pretty tricky until the sun started to go down a bit; I could see the buff in my spotting scope but the white paint blended into the mountainside. I was finally able to use the boolit impacts on the buff for an aiming point. Wind at the firing line was 10-15mph from L to R but when I held left I hit left. Vegetation on the mountainside didn't give me anything solid so I went with no windage and just let the wind catch one now and then.
No spotters available, closest guy was clueless and too busy fighting with his wife to be much help. I figured I had about three seconds to get on the scope after the shot and it actually worked quite well.
Actually hit the buff inside of my first six rounds, boolit dropped between his feet and I heard the gong but didn't realize what I'd heard. Adjusted up & shot over him next shot. Next hit several shots later I didn't see the boolit hit but heard the gong. Still clueless, lol. Ran out of Money boolits but had 20 457125's loaded up over a load I haven't taken to the range yet but it's a slight tweak of a load this rifle seemed to like. It was hitting about 10 ft low so walking it in was pretty simple, hit it again after about 8 shots and this time the wheels started turning. I saw the boolit drop between his feet, then heard the gong about three seconds later.
While I was letting that soak in I fired a few more shots until I hit it again just to confirm.
I'll try to post a pic of my rear sight but left my dial calipers at home so won't be able to give you a precise measurement. Pic isn't very good but I'm enjoying a sip of whiskey so a better pic will have to wait.

[TXGunNut]

Phone and laptop are fighting, best guess I had about a third of the upright left. I didn't run out of windage after all. I'd SWAG it at about 2" above my 100yd setting.

[TXGunNut]

I'm still thinking he's going to be close to 200 points on the staff. I am also wondering if starting below 1200 if that bullet will stay stable enough past 900 to make consistent enough strikes to make corrections off of, especially if there's any crosswinds.
Going to be interesting to see what happens.

You were correct, Don. The 457125's were probably closer to 1300fps and the crosswinds seemed to toy more with the Money boolit than the Lyman. I saw indications of L-R and R-L winds so if a boolit went flying off to the side now and then I just wrote it off. Some went 10 ft to the right, some 20, some flew true.

[TXGunNut]

You should have piles of elevation to reach that buffalo then I would think. Even if my guess was right then you'd need 173 minutes. I just dug my deluxe Shaver LR sight out of the parts box and the staff goes up to 3.25". I think someone mentioned that you are shooting a 34" barreled Sharps? That would put your sight radius at around 38", so one minute of angle is not much more than 0.01" on the sight. My guestimate would put you around 1.73x38/36=1.83 on your sight staff. Sometimes its easier to spot misses that are short, depending on the backstop so you might want to start 10 points lower.Chris.

You were right about the elevation available and your calculations were very, very close. Possibly within .1". I'll know when I get my rifle a bit closer to my dial calipers.
Good job, thank you!

[TXGunNut]

Hope this is of some help. -Tom Myers

I think I actually have that software, mainly been using the firearms log for now. I can now see how useful it can be. Hopefully I'll be able to figure out how to use it.

[Don McDowell]

What is the 0 mark on the slide lined up with on the staff. How many hash marks above or below the #2 stamped on the sight?

[Tom Myers]

You were right about the elevation available and your calculations were very, very close. Possibly within .1". I'll know when I get my rifle a bit closer to my dial calipers.
Good job, thank you!

Without using calipers, you can actually read the vernier scale on the sight and be accurate to within 1/100" when determining, sight adjustment values.

A link on my website should give a fairly good explanation of how to read, record and adjust a vernier sight.

Click on the vernier slider image or here > How to Read a Vernier Sight to open the webpage



It may take some time to become familiar with a vernier sight, but once the skill has been acquired, very precise, accurate sight adjustments can be made.

I recall that, when I first started in the BPCR game, I was consistently and totally confused when making sight adjustments but, after I finally decided to really try to understand the vernier measuring method, The light bulb turned on and I was amazed at the simplicity and accuracy of the process.


With a 30 inch barrel, the sight radius is usually right at 34". A 34 inch sight radius means that the sight adjustment points translate quite closely into Minute of Angle adjustments.

A sight radius of 32.9 inches will translate point adjustments directly into M.O.A. adjustments.

With a 32 inch barrel, the sight radius is usually right at 36". A 36 inch sight radius means that the sight adjustment points translate directly into inches of impact adjustment at 100 yards.

When you are on the shooting line and your spotter calls for an elevation adjustment of 3 M.O.A., you don't need to worry about how many revolutions of the adjustment screw are required. Simply re-aligning the next third sight staff mark above or below will adjust the sight 0.03" or 3 points which, with a sight radius between 33" and 36", will be quite close or dead on for bullet impact displacements of ~ 3 M.O.A. ~ 3" @ 100 yd ~ 6" @ 200 yd ~ 30" @ 1,000 yd ~ etc.


When using the Precision Ballistics Software you can observe that the sight adjustment chart is marked off in inches, M.O.A., points, and Staff/Slider alignment values. These comparisons may be used to ease the process when learning to make the transition from adjustment measurements to adjustment points.

[TXGunNut]

What is the 0 mark on the slide lined up with on the staff. How many hash marks above or below the #2 stamped on the sight?

0 is one mark below the "2", 100 yd zero was 3.5 marks above the bottom of the scale.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, Tom. Excellent link and explanation. At one time a few decades ago I actually learned how to read a Vernier caliper, must admit I didn't recognize the markings.

[Don McDowell]

0 is one mark below the "2", 100 yd zero was 3.5 marks above the bottom of the scale.

That would be called 195.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[BrentD]

TXGunNut,
When you started this thread, i just assumed you were getting ready to go to the BPCR Nationals since it is only a little more than a week away. Is there any chance you will still be there, or will come back for the matches?

I am working on getting things ready, cleaning out boxes, reorganizing, making piles of things that have to go. I leave on Friday and will shoot the Lever Gun nationals starting on Monday and staying through and entire 2 weeks. If you weren't planning on it there is still time to change your mind, but you need to load fast!

[TXGunNut]

TXGunNut,
When you started this thread, i just assumed you were getting ready to go to the BPCR Nationals since it is only a little more than a week away. Is there any chance you will still be there, or will come back for the matches?

I am working on getting things ready, cleaning out boxes, reorganizing, making piles of things that have to go. I leave on Friday and will shoot the Lever Gun nationals starting on Monday and staying through and entire 2 weeks. If you weren't planning on it there is still time to change your mind, but you need to load fast!

I may stop in Tuesday on the way home. In Cody now for the WACA show and a bit of gawking at the Cody Museum. Sharps Collectors will be here as well. I retired from the shooting comp game over 15 yrs ago; too much travelling and expense. Must admit I'm toying with playing the BPCR game but if I do it will be on a very limited basis. Casting and loading and load testing for that Sharps is a lot of work, I have a whole new respect for you guys that do this on a regular basis.

[BrentD]

Let's see, Tuesday of this coming week, we will be down on the pistol silhouette range, one range to the East of the High Power Silhouette range and down the hill. We will be shooting the second day of lever gun rifles.

I'll be shooting a Marlin 93 with black powder. I will probably be the ONLY one shooting black, so look for smoke, or look for a new, white F150 with Iowa plates.

[TXGunNut]

That would be called 195.

Thanks, Don. Haven't had time to sit down and figure it out, that's helpful. It's all beginning to make sense now.
And thanks again to all who helped me pull this off. Couldn't have done it without you.

[TXGunNut]

Let's see, Tuesday of this coming week, we will be down on the pistol silhouette range, one range to the East of the High Power Silhouette range and down the hill. We will be shooting the second day of lever gun rifles.

I'll be shooting a Marlin 93 with black powder. I will probably be the ONLY one shooting black, so look for smoke, or look for a new, white F150 with Iowa plates.

Sounds like fun, looking forward to watching a bit before I head home. I'm the old guy with a beard driving a new red F150 with TX Horned Toad (conservation) plates.

[BrentD]

Old guy with beard... might be one or two of those around.... Will look for ya.

[TXGunNut]

LOL. Long day, just having a bit of fun. Shoot straight, I'll find you.

[TXGunNut]

I hope I can make this work. My pics are poor quality and IT skills are even poorer.