under standing paperpatching?

[johnson1942]

i was thinking that their may be some interest in a post where anyone can ask any question they want on paperpatching a bullet for a muzzle loader. no question will be ignored and the whole point of it would be to provide a way to get info to those who are toying with the idea. i would like ron, myself and old racer and all the others who have now become very good at makeing and shooting paperpatch bullets contribute so the ones with questions can learn from us all. we get here question now and then on pp so lets get some now and get a lot of input from every one to get others shooting paperpatch. their are several ways to do it so they can pick and choose info they would like to try. this would be easier than looking it all up from the past. johnson 1942

[Harleysboss]

Well I will start things off. I will say that I already use Ron's methods of paper Patching for my GM LRH 50 1-28. Now I have a worn out TC New Englander barrel that I would like to have re bored and rifled to 52cal. I'm thinking of calling Mr. Hoyt for the work but I need to know what to ask for. I'm thinking one of the Lyman molds .512 515 grn what about twist rate and rifling depth. I ran some numbers through a twist calculator and seems 1-36 is about right. The gun will be real close to a 50-70 govt and I've read some about the sharps and 1-36 has been used on a cartridge gun. Am I way off ? If so set me straight

[idahoron]

Your right on track. I almost bought a 52 to do this very thing. I have had several guys offer to send me their rifles and let me test them. I should take them up on it.

[johnson1942]

if you tell me the length of bullet i will tell you the perfect twist. weight is nothing and its all about the length of the bullet. thanks for your question.

[Harleysboss]

Accurate mold shows a mold that measures .512 and .88 to .90 in length. Two wraps of #9 should put it right at .52 may have to get the correct sizer die to get just the right fit.

[johnson1942]

i will do the math tomorrow and post it, tonight i have 100 things going.

[idahoron]

Accurate mold shows a mold that measures .512 and .88 to .90 in length. Two wraps of #9 should put it right at .52 may have to get the correct sizer die to get just the right fit.

I am betting it is closer to .518 I would wait on the sizer until you try it.

[Kitika]

I have a Lyman Trade rifle 1/48 twist .50 cal. I'm just getting back into target shooting with it and have an itch to try paperpatch. I'm thinking of getting either a Lee minie or Real patching it and sizing it afterwards to fit the barrel. I haven't had much luck at 100m with ball and patch which is why I'd like to give paperpatching a try. Paperpatching mostly so I don't have to worry about leading.
Are the Real and minie a good place to start experimenting?

[johnson1942]

if you get the two molds you can do one of two thing or both. resize the bullet to .492 and either double wrap with number nine paper or single wrap with 18 pound freezer wrap paper. use a wad between bullet and powder. or you can double wrap with number nine paper and resize to about .498. both methods work. i would stick with soft lead and never ever use wheel weights in the lead mix. i use 60 thousands thick wads as for black powder cartridge rifles but others use felt wads or cork gasket wads. they should all work. i sure your gun will shoot very very good pp the bullet.

[johnson1942]

run the math just now. a 1/36 twist as you said, to a 1/39 twist will give you extreem accuracy with that bullet. i bet you could shoot them to 500 yards and beyond and do very well.

[Good Cheer]

I'm using a .519 sizer. Still trying to get testing done.



Got a .515 round ball mold for initial sighting in and plinking.
Same 9/16" punch as used for .54.

[Buckshot]

Have a Parker-Hale Whitworth, .450" x .462" bore.



And a .45 Cal Rigby type match rifle (34" Green Mountain octagon) .450" x .458" bore.



LEFT: They both shoot these swaged patched 530gr slugs very well. RIGHT: These are all I've tried in both rifles (except the hexagonal ones in the Rigby) and they too shoot well. At least at the shorter ranges.

...................Buckshot

[classicballistx]

Is this thread still alive or should I put questions directly to folks? I'm about to take delivery of Navy Arms' import of an Ardesa-Aral Rigby replica - ostensibly .451 bore and 22 twist. It's not the Pedersoli Gibbs rifle, definitely not a 1000 yard gun, but rather intended for 100-200-300 meter shooting.
I patch for .30 cal smokeless and I used to for .40 BPCR. This gun apparently lives for 425-475 grain bullets and 80-100gr powder charges. I don't like grease or wads and PP makes sense to me, even at the low velocities (<1300fps) this gun seems designed for.

[idahoron]

I am going to say that the RCBS 11mm rifle bullet would be a very good bullet. I like the lead to be about 9 bhn hard. With this hardness the bullet will weigh 408 grains give or take. Patch it with 9# onion skin and size it to .446, .448 either will work. Use an over powder wad and 80 grains of Pyrodex P.

[classicballistx]

I am going to say that the RCBS 11mm rifle bullet would be a very good bullet. I like the lead to be about 9 bhn hard. With this hardness the bullet will weigh 408 grains give or take. Patch it with 9# onion skin and size it to .446, .448 either will work. Use an over powder wad and 80 grains of Pyrodex P.

Thanks Ron. Good starting point.


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[charlie b]

Well, I have used stability calculations to determine if a bullet is suitable for shooting from my Lyman. So far it has worked well for me in picking bullets.

Using 1" long bullets most of the time (450gn, .492 PP from BACO). As may be seen in other posts here I had really good luck on most days with them. But, BACO sold out so I got some 500gn that are 1.2" long. Had bad luck with them at first. These are about the longest bullet that should be stable with the 1:32 twist of my Lyman GPH barrel. I would have one day where they worked really well, as in 1"-2" groups (this is my personal limit shooting with open sights and old eyes). Then on another day the groups would open up.

So I finally started playing with the stability equation a bit because I have been shooting in colder weather. Temp plays a huge role in stability due to air density being a big factor. Just for grins I also started measuring the barometric pressure.

Surprise! Those loads that worked so well when it is warmer and air pressure is lower are considered unstable at low temp and high pressure.

So, now I know where my bullet limits are I will look for a mold in the 400gn range. It also means I may have to spring for a .45 fast twist barrel for the Lyman.

[classicballistx]

I have my Navy Arms "Creedmoor Match" in hand now. Nice piece of work, except for the rear sight. I have a Shaver for that.

The sizer that came with the rifle slugs at .451", but I haven't done a cast of the bore to check it out. In fact, I've never cast a bore in a barrel without access to drive the cast out, so I need some advice about how folks slug muzzle loaded bores.

That 11mm boolit looks better all the time, but I'd really like to experiment with a still lighter one. SAECO's 375 grain looks like a model, but squeezing a 458/459 boolit down to .445" for my 'dictionary paper' patching is asking way too much.

Every idea I've ever gotten from Cast Boolits has been golden and I'm hoping a little more of that gold flows my way. Thanks, y'all, in advance.

[Edward]

I have my Navy Arms "Creedmoor Match" in hand now. Nice piece of work, except for the rear sight. I have a Shaver for that.

The sizer that came with the rifle slugs at .451", but I haven't done a cast of the bore to check it out. In fact, I've never cast a bore in a barrel without access to drive the cast out, so I need some advice about how folks slug muzzle loaded bores.

That 11mm boolit looks better all the time, but I'd really like to experiment with a still lighter one. SAECO's 375 grain looks like a model, but squeezing a 458/459 boolit down to .445" for my 'dictionary paper' patching is asking way too much.

Every idea I've ever gotten from Cast Boolits has been golden and I'm hoping a little more of that gold flows my way. Thanks, y'all, in advance.

9 LB onion skin is not dictionary paper ,I followed Ron"s formula word for word and it truly works . Experiment is great (did that too) but it is costly /lead and powder !!!! Have fun /Ed

[classicballistx]

9 LB onion skin is not dictionary paper ,I followed Ron"s formula word for word and it truly works . Experiment is great (did that too) but it is costly /lead and powder !!!! Have fun /Ed

‘Dictionary paper’ was my solution dating from shooting .30 patched bullets for fifty years, most recently in my K31, and .40 and .45 BPCR in my highwalls. In the beginning, they were more easily available than trick stationery.

I’m looking for the lightest bullet that will give me consistent 9 ring accuracy.

CBX


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