Anything special needed for 45/90?

[AbitNutz]

So I was able to pick up a C. Sharps 1875 rifle in 45/90. (it's just a freakin' disease, isn't it?) I'm assuming that I can use my war weary RCBS 45/70 dies to reload it...? There's nothing specific die wise that is required, kinda like the 38spl/357 mag?

Also, I understand that, like shooting a 38spl in a 357 mag, I can shoot 45/70 rounds in a rifle chambered for 45/90 with no ill effects? Well, except for the accuracy...I would think that firing 45/70's in it may not be as accurate. I guess it would be like having a huge amount of freebore, more or less.

While, in my opinion the 1875 is not nearly as attractive as the 1874 or 1877 Sharps...It looks like a it sorta needs to loose the hammer entirely and change its name to Borchardt...it does have a 34 inch Badger barrel as well as being American made, both of which are bonus points to me.

[flashhole]

Not sure I'd go that route. I can see the expander and seat dies being pretty universal but I'd want to properly size the brass with a die designed to do so.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/860...harps-straight

[Ballistics in Scotland]

You can use .45-70 dies to load .45-90 rounds, at least for a while. It might be that your dies prevent you sizing your .45-90s up to the shellholder, and in this case you may find 45-and extraction difficult after a few rounds. How few depends on your brass, your chamber and especially on how high pressure your loads are. With black powder loads it may take a long, long time. Anyone with machining facilities can make you a simple ring die to occasionally size the area near the head, and nothing else.

The use of .45-70 rounds in the .45-90 chamber will in theory produce some loss of accuracy, and some erosion of the last 0.3in. or so of the chamber, which will make for difficult extraction. Neither is as bad as many imagine, particularly in a modern chrome-moly barrel. The inaccuracy one will probably be worst with cast bullets, and the erosion one will be much worse with hot smokeless loads than with black powder or the equivalent.

It sounds like a rifle which is worth a lot more than a set of .45-90 dies. Finally if you are really set on using .45-70 rounds all the time, you could set the barrel back to make it a .45-70. I don't know the thread pitch, and assuming you have to keep the top of the barrel at the top, you can only set back by a whole number of threads. But you might even be able to do it without altering the chamber.

[flashhole]

I think our friend BiS meant to say ... The use of 45-70 rounds in the 45-90 chamber ...

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Ah yes, shrewdly spotted and now corrected. thanks. A .45-90 in a .45-90 chamber should cause no problems.

[country gent]

I have loaded 45-90s in 45-70 dies and some sizing dies are deep enough to size the whole case. I normally use a neck size mecham bushing die for my 45-90 ( it will with correct size bushings do 45-70, 45-90, 45 110, 40 -65 and several others based on 45 case). I full length sized my 45-90 brass for the first loading in a RCBS cowboy sizing die. Its noow on it 6-7 loading only being neck sized in the mecham die. The reason for the bushing die is that grease grooved and bore riding Paper Patched bullets require diffrent size necks due to difrent bullet dia. My grease groove bullets for this rifle are .459- .460 dia and the paper patched when wrapped are .449-.450. Ihavent had a round neck sized yet that was tough to chamber or extract if fired in this rifle. As to using 45-70 in the 45-90 chamber I could see a very nasty hard carbon ring forming in the .300 extra length of the chamber. 45-90 brass is available from starline and several others and isnt a whole lot more money than 45-70. WHat twist is the barrel? This will determine what bullet it will want. Originally the 45-90 was a slower twist and lighter bullet of around 300-350 grns and was an express round. A twist rate od 1-18 will shine with 500-550grn bullets.

[MT Chambers]

I've experimented with not using dies at all in my 45/70 and 50/90, using ZERO case neck tension and seating with my fingers, the bullet sits on powder and can't go anywhere. The bullet can't fall in, and if it falls out when extracting a live round, no powder falls out as it is compressed and a wad is used.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I've experimented with not using dies at all in my 45/70 and 50/90, using ZERO case neck tension and seating with my fingers, the bullet sits on powder and can't go anywhere. The bullet can't fall in, and if it falls out when extracting a live round, no powder falls out as it is compressed and a wad is used.

This was common practice with Scheutzen competitive shooters, in smaller sizes. There is no surer way of making something consistent (in this case bullet pull) than by reducing it to zero. Sometimes they fired all their shots from a single case for a complete match, but that strikes me as excessive pernicketiness with modern brass. All there is left to be consistent is capacity and flash-hole size, and those can be checked.

The change in the rifling twist came in 1900, for Winchester repeaters and with special orders excepted. Although they had a good single shot in manufacture, I doubt if it offered the faster twist any sooner. The old twist was 32in., which presumably was adequate for the 330gr. bullet Winchester marketed. It wasn't uncommon for worn-out rifles in smaller calibres to be rebored to .45-90 either. Late Winchester .45-90s of all types would almost certainly have a 16 or 20in. twist, the latter being better. It will stabilize a heavier bullet than is practical in the repeater.

But the OP's rifle is presumably a modern C. Sharps replica. They use many different barrels, and no doubt have used more, so the rifling should indeed be checked. All you need to check the twist is a ruler and a little paper flag on the cleaning rod. I'd be surprised if one of their rifles doesn't have a twist suitable for the heaviest bullets in common use. While there are more sophisticated formulae available to check the require twist, you won't go far wrong with Greenwood's. Multiply the bullet length measured in calibres, by the rifling pitch measured in calibres, and the answer ought to be 150 or less. But 200 will frequently stabilize a bullet of conventional design.

This should be good for a jacketed bullet or a hard alloy one, but the effect of bullet density can be overrated. In theory the twist should vary, not with bullet density but in inverse proportion to its square root. Make the alloy 1.1 times lighter, which is a lot, and you need a twist 1.049 times faster.

[AbitNutz]

I assume if I buy a set of 45/90 dies that I can use it on my 45/70? Now to find a set of 45/90 dies...

I saw some RCBS dies that I'm sure will fill the bill...I may be missing the obvious but what does "ribs" mean?

Here's the description of the dies:

Ribs product
Legacy series dies
Reloading dies
Legacy series dies support the legendary metallic black powder cartridges
Designed to support original or reproduction black powder rifles
3-Die roll crimp set

[flashhole]

That's likely a typo for rcbs. Look on eBay.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I assume if I buy a set of 45/90 dies that I can use it on my 45/70? Now to find a set of 45/90 dies...

Most likely you can, but as the case will be advancing about .3in. less into a tapered die, you might not find it fully sized down at the neck. I think you would get reasonable grip o n the bullet, but it is just possible it might let gases into the lube grooves before the bullet starts to move. It isn't the end of the world, but is there anything about the war-weariness of the .45-70 dies you have, which makes them best avoided?

[EDG]

You don't get a medal or a Tee shirt for cutting corners over the cost of a set of dies. Ribs = typo for RCBS

I assume if I buy a set of 45/90 dies that I can use it on my 45/70? Now to find a set of 45/90 dies...

I saw some RCBS dies that I'm sure will fill the bill...I may be missing the obvious but what does "ribs" mean?

Here's the description of the dies:

Ribs product
Legacy series dies
Reloading dies
Legacy series dies support the legendary metallic black powder cartridges
Designed to support original or reproduction black powder rifles
3-Die roll crimp set

[AbitNutz]

It's not a matter of being cheap...it's a matter of it actually being the same thing or not...sorta like 357mag/38spl. I'm not going to buy two essentially identical products if the only difference is one says 45/70 and the other says 45/90.

[EDG]

How did you get the idea that they might be the same thing?
Do you not think the chambers are different too?
Do you not think the manufacturers know the difference?
The two pistol rounds are straight cases. The 45-70 is not a straight case - it is tapered.

It's not a matter of being cheap...it's a matter of it actually being the same thing or not...sorta like 357mag/38spl. I'm not going to buy two essentially identical products if the only difference is one says 45/70 and the other says 45/90.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I think you will need some very strong shoulder muscles or a really thick pad. You are talking about 85-90 grains of black pussum.

[45-70 Chevroner]

A goog pacmyer shoulder pad???

[45-70 Chevroner]

They are both tapered but you won't get the same results using eather set of dies to load both calibers. The taper will not be the same on both cases using one die set.