Blackhorn 209 vs. Black MZ

[omgb]

I was at a shooting camp yesterday up in the Mtns. of SoCal in the Lockwood Valley between Bakersfield and LA. The elevation is around 4,000 feet. The temps hovered around 80-85 all day and the humidity was maybe 15-20% tops. I had no instruments to measure it but 6+ years as a military weather observer has left me with a well calibrated sense of feel.

We used the BH209 in a couple of inlines, a CVA Optima and a mid-grade Thompson Center. The Black MZ was used in an Enfield 58 cal rifle and a Zouave. I also used it in a Great Plains 50 cap lock and in a ROA revolver. Here's what I noted. Not very scientific but pretty obvious to everyone there.

1. BH209 lit perfectly with zero delay using Win 209 primers.
2. Charges ranged from 70 grains to 110 grains but mostly 70.
3. 3/4 of the bullets used were TC Cheapshots (sabots) I also shot about 50 TC Maxie balls lubed with SPG and 5 or so Hornady Hardballs, a very hard round ball in a sabot cup...kinda like Buttler Creek used to make.
4. Velocity with all was high. Even at 70 grains the crack was sharp and very pronounced. Recoil was noticeable too.
5. I had to swab the bore just once after more than 30 rounds.
6. Accuracy was very good. A deer sized target at 50 yards was "killed" every time by 9-13 year olds with zero experience.
7. I burned through 10 oz. of it that day.
8. Clean up was pretty much done with 4 patches of Ed's red for each rifle. (They tell you not to use water with BH209. The patch I ran down the bore after 30 rounds was some sort of T77 pre-lubed patch; definitely water based but nothing bad happened).
9. If velocity is your thing and you don't mind the $3.4 0 an ounce cost, this does the trick
10. One more thing, it doesn't meter or pour from a flask worth a ****. I wound up scooping it.

Now to the Black MZ
1. It meters very well but clumps over time. Mine was left over from last year and I had to shake it to break it up.
2. We shot 60 grains in the three remaining rifles. The muskets used Lyman Minnie bullets, Lee REAL bullets and a couple of TC maxie balls (yes, they do exist in 58cal.)
3. Ignition was 100% using musket caps from last year and a couple of years before. The GP rifle used Winchester magnum caps.
4. I shot the muskets all day and never swabbed the bores.
5. All of the bullets were sized in a .577 sizer in my RCBS luber and all were lubed with SPG.
6. The Lyman GP fired the Hornady Hardballs, unlubed and 50 cal maxie balls lubed and sized in my RCBS luber.
7. Accuracy was very good. Gongs, menacing rocks and bullseye targets all were victims of the muskets. The kids had to use a shooting stick but they did ok.
8. Kids don't like curved Hawken-style butt plates. There arms are too small to shoot with the butt in the upper arm and their shoulders too bony to cope with the curved shape under recoil.
9. I swabbed the Hawken twice. It's bore came to me less than slick so it tends to foul more.
10. Clean up used a couple of patches wetted with Gunzila. The nipples were wiped with Gunzilla too then the metal, inside and out got a coat of Remoil.

The revolver remains uncleaned until Saturday. It's stainless and the garage is dry so I'm pretty sure I won't have a problem.

Neither product left a "crud ring" like T7 and both were faster and more consistent than Pyrodex. If you must use a BP sub and unless an inline is your game, I'd go with Black MZ.

For my inlines, it's Blackhorn 209 all the way and...I'm going to use it in my 32-20 revolver loads too.

As a side note, screw the stupid sabot rounds and go for the maxie ball. They are cheap, really hard hitting and deadly accurate.

That's my story. It's worth what you paid for it.

R Talley

[rodwha]

I left my rifle overnight after a long day at the range with three guns. My rifle was a mess. I had read of a CASS shooters leaving their guns without ill effect so I tried it. However I was using up Pyrodex my father had given me.

Later I read of a fellow who swore by soaking his gun(s) in oil if he wouldn't be able to get to them soon enough. The idea being the oil would stave off any moisture. I tried this with both of my pistols leaving them in my hot and humid garage and it worked quite well.

[omgb]

Pyrodex has never really impressed me. Back iin the 70s when it was the only BP sub I used it but it never lived up to the hype.

[johnson1942]

mix a little bit of fine powdered graphite with the blackhorn 209 powder and it will pour better. the makers of the 209 powder told me that on the phone.

[Maven]

Excellent report, RJT!

[mooman76]

I tried T/C Nature Lube 1000. I tried their claim of seasoning the barrel and using it to cut down corrosion. I wiped down the barrel after cleaning with a light coat, like wax and seasoned the bore. Then used it next time shooting and I didn't clean after wards. I was using Pyrodex and this was a rifle. I checked the rifle often twice a day for a week and it did not have any signs of corrosion. I'm not sure I buy off on the seasoning part but it did keep the corrosion at bay. I don't know how it would do on a pistol and I don't really recommend doing this routine but it is an option for hunting or an over nighter where you can get to it to clean right away.

[mooman76]

I agree, good report. Not really a vs. thing, because circumstances were not the same but a very good report none the less.

[omgb]

BH 209 is strictly an in-line powder or to be used in BP cartridge. It's makers say it will not light in any side lock gun. They go on to insist you use s Win/Fed/Rem/Ched 209 primer and NOT a T7 primer. I followed their advice and had zero ignition problems. As to the clumping, I thought about adding some graphite and I think I'll try it in the future. It's an expensive [powder at $3.40/ounce but boyhowdy, if you want velocity this is your huckleberry.

The Black MZ was an experiment. I have several pounds of GOEX but I'm always willing to try something new. I drove 160 miles round trip to buy the BH209. There's no way I'd do that for Black MZ. It's good and will give you higher velocity that BP but not enough in my book to make it worth it's higher price ($28/lb vs $17/lb for GOEX)

I forgot to mention that we also fired a Pedersoli/Texas Trailguns Armory SxS 50 cal. I used the Black MZ in that. It shot well. Ignition was quick. I used TC Maxiballs in that lubed and sized with SPG. I only put 10 rounds through each barrel and no wiping was required.

[mooman76]

I bought Black MZ at Sportsmans Warehouse for something like $10#. That's the only reason I bought it to try in case I run out of the real stuff, it could be a viable alternative for me. Other than that I've used Pyrodex for about 30 years and it has always worked fine for me in all my cap guns despite what some say.

[johnson1942]

i use 209 powder in all my side locks with a magspark nipple. i use regular shotgun primers in the magspark and my side locks go off every time.

[omgb]

OK. today was clean up. 6 long guns and a revolver in less than an hour. The only water flushing was the handgun cylinder everything else was a few patches with Gunzilla for the Black MZ guns and a few with Ed's Red for the inlines. I've never had clean up go so quickly. Nipples were brushed on he outside and cleaned with a pipe cleaner. Then blasted with compressed air from one of those computer cleaner dusters. Honestly, it was much faster and much less messy than water flushing. The BH209 guns came clean the fastest with maybe 3 patches each before there was nothing n the patch. The others took 5 maybe six patches. The revolver has some stubborn crud on the hammer nose and around the hammer shield where the nipples direct their back flash but it all came clean with a wooden scraper and Gunzilla. Everything was wiped down with Ballistol soaked rags just like in years past. All in all, a superior experience.

[mooman76]

I've been clean with Hopps #9 for over 30 years with no problems. I finally tried water a couple years ago and ran into problems so I went back.

[toot]

I can't find BLACK-MZ. for sale. most sites says that it has been discontinued. any one know what is going on with it?

[Hellgate]

From the Alliant website:
http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/muzzleloader.aspx
There's a small blue box that says discontinued.

[arcticap]

I can't find BLACK-MZ. for sale. most sites says that it has been discontinued. any one know what is going on with it?

The American Pioneer Powder factory that was allegedly making it had an explosion and closed down.
You can find Black MZ for sale at Jedidiah Starr, but it's very costly and their Hazmat and shipping charges are very high.