ATF to stop issuing FFL to home based dealers

[TXGunNut]

Not true, nothing has changed and I am home based. I think there was an article on TTAG but it was garbage. As usual too much bad info about being an FFL.

They've been running this garbage up the flagpole for longer than most gun dealers have been in business. Yes, they want to discourage the home based dealer but don't believe everything you read or hear.

[Artful]

All I know is I had to get one because of the .gov saying I sold too many at gunshows
to be a private individual (needed to be a business) - then I didn't sell enough to keep one after change of administration - it's all subject to change without notice depending upon the whims of each administration.

[Mica_Hiebert]

This is no new thing I looked into running a ffl out of my home 10 years ago and was gunna do the gun show thing and the regulations kept me grounded.

[mrvmax]

Accordint to the local ATF agent here you can get one for things like transferrs. You can now get one for flea market or gun shows only. I don't need one but the info was interesting.

Nothing has changed, they still issue types 01, 02, 07 (and a couple of other types) for the same reasons. They do not give a special license for selling at gun shows and it is illegal to sell at a flea market unless you happen to own the place and it is listed on your FFL as place of business. There is not a special license for transfers, nothing has changed recently. You have to be in business and you have to meet all local requirements (i.e. city/county/state laws) and even an HOA needs to give you permission if you are home based. Those are the main reasons why people are denied a license. Do not listne to all the garbage out there, the ATF have proven over and over they do not know their own rules. Ask your local ATF agent to cite us regulations where it backs up his claims - I guarantee he cannot do it since it is not true.

[Geezer in NH]

Another problem now a day is the suppliers WILL NOT sell unless you prove to be a store front wanting photo's of your establishment. This is the gun suppliers asking that not the atf

[MrWolf]

Local zoning is what stopped me in my tracks when I looked into it about five or six years ago. That and all your firearms must be listed, etc..

[mrvmax]

Another problem now a day is the suppliers WILL NOT sell unless you prove to be a store front wanting photo's of your establishment. This is the gun suppliers asking that not the atf

This is true and getting to be the biggest detractor to starting home based. I am grandfathered in at a few but one recently stopped selling to home based (RSR) and I think more are going that direction.

[bstone5]

I had one for 30 years, working out of my garage as a gunsmith. The zoning requirement made me to have to give up my FFL. I got the FFL with some help from a BATF agent who wanted me to work on some long range black powder cartridge rifles for him and some of his friends.

This guy and his friends have all passed on from this earth some years ago.

I started as as Ordance Machinist in the military and have made long range shooting rifles for a long time. I got the lathe, milling machine and other equipment when I finished college and starting working full time as an engineer.

The BATF person who got my FFL said I could still work on rifles as a hobby but could not do work as a business due to the zoning requirements and the deed restrictions in my residential location.

It has been funny about the change in the BATF thinking but at age 70 I was about ready to give up on working on other peoples stuff.

A hobby is fine for me now, I never did transfer any weapons and was not a gun dealer.

Here in the Houston Texas area the BATF is actively using the zoning requirement to force a lot of FFL holders to give up their FFL.

[DerekP Houston]

Here in the Houston Texas area the BATF is actively using the zoning requirement to force a lot of FFL holders to give up their FFL.

When I first started purchasing, the home based FFL were much friendlier and cheaper than the LGS. Sadly my 2 favorites declined to renew their licenses as well and the list seems to be shrinking. I pay a bit more to use the pawn shop and they are slow as balls about sending paperwork and contacting you for pickup. Thanks .gov!

[higgins]

I once had a pawn shop owner pitch a fit because I asked him the reasoning behind the sign behind the gun counter that effective on some date he would no longer do transfers for guns ordered from Bud's. I asked him why he would run business across the highway to another pawn shop that would transfer guns from Bud's and I thought he would blow a gasket. His incoherent gibberish made no sense, but by God I'll bet he showed Bud's a thing or two while steering more business to the dealer across the highway.

It's his business and he can do what he pleases, but I'm convinced stunts like that run more storefront dealers out of business than home dealers do.

[dragon813gt]

Most FFLs around here will not handle transfers from Bud's. Same thing goes for NFA items through Silencershop. It's not an uncommon practice and I sort of understand why they do it. Especially w/ Silencershop because they cannot remotely compete w/ their prices.

[MtGun44]

ATF hates gun owners, wants to do EVERYTHING they can to make it more
difficult, expensive, time consuming and inconvenient to buy a gun.

Any time they can hassle someone in the business in any way or an individual,
they love it.

[Gaseous Maximus]

ATF hates gun owners, wants to do EVERYTHING they can to make it more
difficult, expensive, time consuming and inconvenient to buy a gun.

Any time they can hassle someone in the business in any way or an individual,
they love it.

This is so true. Interestingly, the original purpose of a FFL was not to open a business. Back in 1968 mail order firearms were common. The $ 5.00 or some such low price FFL was offered as an incentive, by those who wanted to pass the 1968 Firearms Bill. Anyone who was interested in still buying mail order, with a fairly clean record, could obtain one with a minimum hassle. The situation has devolved into the sordid mess it is today. Clinton got rid of about 2/3 of the FFLs, this was before lawsuits sucessfully challenged some of the rulings. Also it was during his administration that the cost rose so drastically. Distributor policys. and pressure from MFGs have pretty much made them useless. I still have one, why I don't know. I guess because it makes it easy to order of Gun Broker, plus I have about a dozen modified Mausers that I keep promising myself that I'm going to get rid of.

[Smoke4320]

I once had a pawn shop owner pitch a fit because I asked him the reasoning behind the sign behind the gun counter that effective on some date he would no longer do transfers for guns ordered from Bud's. I asked him why he would run business across the highway to another pawn shop that would transfer guns from Bud's and I thought he would blow a gasket. His incoherent gibberish made no sense, but by God I'll bet he showed Bud's a thing or two while steering more business to the dealer across the highway.

It's his business and he can do what he pleases, but I'm convinced stunts like that run more storefront dealers out of business than home dealers do.

Higgins
You don't know from the dealer's end what happens when a buds transfer goes wrong. It's not good.
He has decided he does not want that hassle
All you have to do is read a few of the negative reviews and you will get just the beginning of understanding.
When you are caught in the middle of a customer who demands what he ordered
( with all good rights) and a company who refuses, dodges and delays making THEIR error right and cost free to THEIR customer
You will gain more understanding

[shooterg]

I'm still mad they created this mess in 1968(I turned 18 and was ready to start mail ordering guns !) . NOBODY should have to have an FFL. The biggest dealer herabouts would still do business - they finance, no home based guys do that

[brian1]

ATF hates gun owners, wants to do EVERYTHING they can to make it more
difficult, expensive, time consuming and inconvenient to buy a gun.

Any time they can hassle someone in the business in any way or an individual,
they love it.

That's the impression I've always had, based on stuff I read. I had never met or dealt with anyone from ATF. I just got my home-based FFL, with zero hassles. When the ATF agent came out to my house, I expected the third degree and a nit-picking inspection designed to challenge and try to find a reason to deny my application. It was none of that. The agent couldn't have been more helpful and collaborative. He spent 4 hours going over all the paperwork, rules, details, and answering my questions about how to operate and stay within the rules. When he left he said I'd probably get the license within a couple weeks, which is exactly what happened.

My zoning was not an issue. I think that's the reason many home-based FFLs get turned down; zoning laws that liberals have put in place. We have relatively little of that **** here, so it was a non-issue.

It is true that distributors like Jerry's and RSR won't sell to home-based, but there are plenty of distributors who will, so they are the ones who will get my business.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup like was said if your selling guns out of your home and your not zoned commercial your probably already breaking the law. Seems to me if your zoned commercial and meet all the local laws and put a sign on your door saying your open say 9-noon on Monday and your sitting in your recliner during those hours then you should satisfy the batf. Even that said the local gunshop here is in an addition to the guys home and is open 5 days a week but ive gone there before during business hours and nobody is around so I doubt they could even hold you to being there during the hours you put on the sign. Id bet its more of an economic thing for the batf. My buddy who used to own that same shop had the batf come in every year to spot check his books. Id bet it just cost the batf to much money to run all over the country checking every joe blow who wanted a license to save themselves a couple hundred bucks a year by being able to buy at dealer cost. Bottom line is it is our tax money paying for that agent doing it and I shouldn't have to pay more taxes to make guns cheaper for you to buy. Heck I remember back in the 80s when I worked at a small power plant that had 52 employees and 4 of them had ffl licensees. Real gun dealers who make there living and feed there familys off selling guns have good reason to applaud. You don't see ford giving anyone who wants it a dealership paper and cars at dealer cost. one crazy thing that had me shaking my head just recently was Palemetto state arms. they have deals all the time that if I order a upper its shipped free to my dealer. If the dealer orders it they don't give them free shipping. He said he gets guys all the time that see there prices and want them to order them a gun and sell it at the price psa lists it at. He said some even get angry when he tacks on the shipping (that he had to pay) and 20 bucks for the transfer

[jmort]

this isnt new by any means, and they did not totally stop issuing FFL's to home based guys with no store front.

This is true. My guy operates out of a subdivision in the country. It is a house surrounded by other houses in a residential zone.

[William Yanda]

Re: local zoning-that varies, widely from place to place. I live in a rural community, and am on the Zoning Board of Appeals. Currently our code is being rewritten-an ongoing process for over 2 years. Home based businesses are specifically allowed with some minor restrictions.

[salpal48]

It is about Time this was done. In the north east NY& NJ. This has been Going On for years. The home base FFL is just a scam for People to buy and sell For Cheap. This loop hole does Nothing to Help LGS who have a Physical store and running a business.
If you can't afford to Have a store . , Pay rent, Overhead, Utilities. Then You don't need one For Yourself.
I had a storefront. It was bad Enough to Make a Living But Competing with Guys sell For $20.00 over shotgun News prices . The FFL system was Just a scam For Phony Cheap Gun Dealers