ATF to stop issuing FFL to home based dealers

[pretzelxx]

Apparently, the week before I would have spent about $500 to open a home FFL the ATF decides not to issue them anymore.

They now require an actual store front and the dealers are following behind the ATF's wonderful idea that this will solve any issues at all with people getting illegal guns. I'm quite sad... at the same time I realize that maybe, just maybe... I should buy an island and run my own country.... Got the information from thetruthaboutguns if anyone is interested in the source.

[DougGuy]

What do they say about people working from home on firearms? You have to have an FFL to receive one to work on but if you are not actually involved in selling.....

[pretzelxx]

I'm not sure their stance on that. That would more easily be described as a "store front" I suppose. I guess I will have to follow the story more closely to find out more information on whether or not that is going to be effected as well. I'm pretty disappointed in the country this week. First california then the feds... ugh.

[Smoke4320]

Actually that's been going on for several years now
As an FFL holder I had to be Zoned as a business. Have an actual store front be open "regular hours " not say 8PM to 10 PM a couple nights and Saturdays but daylight hours.
I believe the Min opening hours was like 30 hours but it been several years so I might be off a few hours
An ATF agent "visited" to verify the Store Front and hours before they would issue the license
They also confirmed my zoning, business license and state resale permit

[salpal48]

Home base FFl. are the Biggest disaster to local Gun shops.. . Why should a cost of $30.00 let people be able to purchase @ wholesale. . i had a shop in Mt vernon NY. . just to Open The Door in The Am was @ a cost of $5000 per month Cost of Rent , gas & electric, Insurance , state fee, Inspection, security. After all That some Bozo asks if I can match the Shotgun news price.
That God I was able To Close after 5 years

[shoot-n-lead]

Home base FFl. are the Biggest disaster to local Gun shops.. . Why should a cost of $30.00 let people be able to purchase @ wholesale. . i had a shop in Mt vernon NY. . just to Open The Door in The Am was @ a cost of $5000 per month Cost of Rent , gas & electric, Insurance , state fee, Inspection, security. After all That some Bozo asks if I can match the Shotgun news price.
That God I was able To Close after 5 years

All other businesses have to compete with the "home" operators...why are gun dealers any different?

It probably was not the home dealers that put you out of business.

Did you actually do the due diligence to verify that the local area would support your gun shop, before opening up?

[AK Caster]

I am not troubled by the ATF new ruling. There are plenty of pawn shops and gun shops that will do transfers for a reasonable fee.

[dragon813gt]

This isn't new. They shut down all kitchen table FFLs a long time ago. If you're a gunsmith you shouldn't have trouble obtaining one. But you will need regular hours and proper zoning.

[Geezer in NH]

This isn't new. They shut down all kitchen table FFLs a long time ago. If you're a gunsmith you shouldn't have trouble obtaining one. But you will need regular hours and proper zoning.

Proper zoning yes hours no if you get the manufacture license. Did that for years in my old shop.

[dragon813gt]

Proper zoning yes hours no if you get the manufacture license. Did that for years in my old shop.

Yeah, I forgot about that one. Regardless you have to be some form of real business to have a FFL.

[500MAG]

I use a home based FFL to do all my transfers. He lives about a mile from me. In fact, I picked up one from him yesterday. Wasn't the Feds that gave him trouble getting started, it was our cities liberal leaders. I've been thinking about starting a gun range here and he says the city won't allow it at all.

[Geezer in NH]

Yeah, I forgot about that one. Regardless you have to be some form of real business to have a FFL.

Buying and selling guns per them needs a license therefore why won't they issue one to you?

One day they are going to deny someone that has money to fight them and they will loose. Most of us regular folks don't have that pleasure.

A door with your info and advertising on it when you are zoned for a home store or shop will work, but you are nuts to have it in your home because that way they get to search everywhere when the want without a warrant.

Better to have a connex box with security installed as your work place IMHO.

[lefty o]

this isnt new by any means, and they did not totally stop issuing FFL's to home based guys with no store front.

[Petrol & Powder]

My understanding of this is home based FFL's selling guns is frowned upon but possible. The real problem seems to be local governments, zoning, business licenses, etc.

The assault on home based FFL's started years ago and many were forced out. A lot of the smaller FFL's operate out of other existing businesses to get around all of the headaches. I know several business that have a FFL as a side source of revenue and that seems to work well.

[dragon813gt]

Buying and selling guns per them needs a license therefore why won't they issue one to you?

I'm not trying to acquire one. I'm not home enough to warrant getting one. And I would also be competing w/ a friend of mine. He has a FFL and works on Glocks and ARs. It's run out of his home but he does have normal business hours.....but you have to call ahead to make an appointment w/ him

As far as smaller FFLs putting larger ones out of business goes. The larger stores in my area charge a ridiculous amount of money for a transfer. They treat it like a burden. So the small FFLs charge a small sum and pocket all the cash.

But it's not all roses for the small guys. I can tell my friend what I want and he will attempt to get it from a distributor. But he's not a high volume dealer and is at the back of the line. I've taken to using Gunbroker because he can't seem to get me anything. I'm not upset because the same thing happens in my trade w/ the small guys at the back of the line.

My Grandfather and Great Uncle were victims of the ATF yanking their FFLs because they didn't have a storefront. My Great Uncle actually sold a good bit of firearms but he didn't want to go through the hassle of getting a business license, zoning changes and a storefront. It was actually a good thing because he died shortly after and it would have been a burden on his wife. Wish I was old enough to purchase from them when they had their FFLs

[AK Caster]

My Grandfather and Great Uncle were victims of the ATF yanking their FFS because they didn't have a storefront. My Great Uncle actually sold a good bit of firearms but he didn't want to go through the hassle of getting a business license, zoning changes and a storefront. It was actually a goos thing because he died shortly after and it would have been a burden on his wife. Wish I was old enough to purchase from them when they had their FFLs

No wonder they yanked it from your Uncle. He wanted the FFL, wanted to sell firearms, but didn't even want to get a business license.

[mrvmax]

Not true, nothing has changed and I am home based. I think there was an article on TTAG but it was garbage. As usual too much bad info about being an FFL.

[mrvmax]

My understanding of this is home based FFL's selling guns is frowned upon but possible. The real problem seems to be local governments, zoning, business licenses, etc.

The assault on home based FFL's started years ago and many were forced out. A lot of the smaller FFL's operate out of other existing businesses to get around all of the headaches. I know several business that have a FFL as a side source of revenue and that seems to work well.

All true

[dragon813gt]

No wonder they yanked it from your Uncle. He wanted the FFL, wanted to sell firearms, but didn't even want to get a business license.

You do realize that what he was doing was perfectly legal before they decided to change the rules. He wasn't doing it as a business. He was selling to friends and family. It would have cost him to much money to set up a store because it wasn't a business for him. I left out the main reason he had the FFL was because he was a collector. He had a very large collection. At the time the ATF was allowing his type to have FFLs. He did not get mad when they decided to take it away.

[aspangler]

Accordint to the local ATF agent here you can get one for things like transferrs. You can now get one for flea market or gun shows only. I don't need one but the info was interesting.