ATF to stop issuing FFL to home based dealers

[GhostHawk]

Back when the powder and primer shortage hit I tried every single store in town to find Powder and primers I needed.

I got NADA. Nothing. Then I looked at gun prices. Same gun I could buy new from Buds or lightly used from Gun Broker for 300$ + shipping and 20$ FFL fee cost over 500$ in the local stores.

So I cut out the middleman.

My FFL has a full time job, not as an FFL or gun store owner.

He does have a store front, aprox 8 feet by 8 feet. Desk, 3 chairs and a filing cabinet with a few shelves in the back. But he only charges 20$ per transfer and in 4 years I have yet to have a problem with any transfer. All smooth as silk. Gun comes in, he emails me, we work out a time that will work for both of us. We meet, I fill out the form, he calls it in, I sign, pay him, he gives me the gun. Hey presto.

Need an FFL in Fargo ND, Tom Challey at Fargo Arms is the guy. info@fargoarms.c0om.

Solid guy.

He is not taking business away from a brick and mortar store. The brick and mortar stores LOST it because of choices they made.

No one locally bent over backwards to get my business, heck they never even met me half way.

BPI does, great deals, great service, quick shipping. And a phone call solves almost any issue I can imagine. Including "I have this hull, this powder, which wad should I look at".

As a result they get my business, as does Bud's Gun Shop (Yet to have a problem) and Gun Broker. On gunbroker you the buyer need to do the due diligence.

If in doubt, ask questions before committing.

Personally I look for listings that

A Indicate they are a FFL.
B Has a good write up describing the item.
C Has more than 3 clear pictures, and not stock photo's. I want to see the item I am considering.

Any given item may have one strike against it. But I never bid or buy with 2 strikes.

If they take the time and energy to do a good write up, with good pictures. Chances are they will take the time to see that you are happy with your purchase. Someone in a hurry is likely going to be in a hurry with me as well. Easier to just pass them by.

There is a LOT of stuff for sale. If your patient, have the funds handy, watch for the item you really want in good condition and strike hard when you see it. Well there are IMO good deals to be had.

Same is pretty much true for buying here IMO.


There used to be a lot of book stores around too. Then Ebooks happened, and people found easier ways to find what they want. At better prices, more convenient, more selection.

Local Gun stores are going to go the same way. Adapt and survive, or fail to adapt and die.

[MaryB]

I had an FFL, I didn't sell. All I did was laser engraving and needed it so people could ship complete guns to me to be worked on. So in your opinion I should not have ran a business form my home!

I guess It a matter Of Getting The bargain. Bargains always Cost somebody , somewhere In the US something. My view Is Plain and simple Unless You have a Legit Business Operation. You should Be Denied

[M-96 Hunter]

Amazing how many posters on this thread who are IN FAVOR of governments having the right to restrict legal free capitalism in the name of lies about safety.

Need some people to read Adam Smith.

"That government which governs least is best."

[Bzcraig]

I got a FFL in 1985 (allowed it to expire because of crazy CA REGS) and was required to have a "business address." There was no requirement to have a brick & mortar gun store. So things must have changed.....

[CLAYPOOL]

I got my F.FL. in 1985. I have all ways been a home operation. But now the whole house is "JUST FULL". I am the only person here just like some of the MOM + POPS gun sales were back in the day. I am open to calls DAY OR NIGHT. Some do call me at night because they have to work for their family's daily. I have helped the A.T.F. once to stop a person from buying a large amount of hand guns from boarding a plane for over sea's. The other call from them was for a certain pistol. They never told me those details. I also have a firing range. The neighbors 10 miles from here stop a shooting range from going in. That will fix a lot of criminals wagon's wont it..! My records are impeccable, PERIOD.. Lots of people get a license and are gone the next round. Why is that, its hard to have every item people want. Next is pricing. Rural King locally is not very much over dealer price. Will they keep selling guns..?? After a few years we will see. NO RECORDS or won't keep them current.. Want to play expert when talking to some one. Walmart is out of gun business locally. They killed a bunch of dealers back 20 years or so. John Deere is trying to puit all the smaller dealers out right now. They also don't want you to service thjeir newer stuff. What do you think their going with that..?? HHMMMmmmnnnnn?

[Lloyd Smale]

Guess I'm lucky to have a decent gun shop locally that doesn't rape people. I was on psa about a month ago and they had lcps for a 169 bucks. I went over and asked the shop owner if he would except shipment of one. He told me Lloyd there two of them in the gun case for 200bucks a piece. time you pay shipping and tax your saving nothing. When I put together my last AR (still in progress) I wanted an 8.5 in pistol. He sold me a lower for 50 bucks. I had the lower parts kit and pistol buffer and he offered to slap it together for me for free. I showed him on line the upper I wanted from psa and asked if he would order it for me. He told me id be better off ordering it myself because psa's no shipping charges deals are if I order it. If he as a store front dealer orders it he has to pay shipping. His store policy too is anything he sells that breaks he will ship it back for repair and pay the shipping costs if any. He makes maybe 25 bucks on a gun and says hed rather get more business and make 25 bucks off each gun then have half the business because he jacked that up to 50 bucks. He is kept in check by the other gunshop close by and allways beats there price by a few bucks. Bottom line is no store front dealer is going to stay in business long unless they sell at competitive prices. A store front and advertising brings in customers and allows them to sell more so they can sell for less. I don't see many store front gun shop owners driving porches!

[andre3k]

This is an old thread. Original Poster hasn't logged in since June 2017.

[Handloader109]

It is an old thread, and nothing the current BATFE is doing to stop or discourage a person from obtaining a license. I got mine last year because if the regulations. As MaryB stated, to do laser engraving or cerakoting you need an ffl. I'm home based, I have a business license, and yes an ffl. Do I sell? I will, I don't advertise to,I don't stock any firearms. I will do transfers, I can't undercut everyone, a local dealer that has a storefront has already done that for us all. $20 is cheap for dealing with folks in my opinion. The local dealers that have a storefront are no different than any other store. Internet sales. Places like buds that sells everything that they are allowed to for $10 over wholesale price and ships with no taxes where allowed makes it hard to justify spending piles of cash on a storefront when stores currently open are having a hard time competing. Good store here just added on, zero gun additions, just now selling clothes and stuff that is not related to firearms. He's trying to diversify... There just isn't a large margin on anything popular. But again, I'd rather not have to have a ffl but it is REQUIRED...

[Idaho45guy]

If it wasn't for a home-based FFL, I'd have to drive an hour and a half to a gun shop to pay too much for firearms. I live in a town of 1200. No gun shops. Closest "large" town is 15 miles away and has 30k people. No gun shops but has five pot shops. My FFL lives 15 miles away in another small town and is a full-time sheriff's deputy. He is the only FFL in my entire county.

Closest gun shop in my state is 50 miles away and is an Ace Hardware store. Not too much of a selection.

My dad started a little gun store in the early 70's and it grew into a 3-store chain in the 80's. He sold off the other two and kept one that I expected to inherit when he retired. Nope. He said he couldn't make enough money off of guns and fishing tackle anymore . He sold it in 2006 and it was torn down to make room for an Autozone. I still have the original sign and some pictures I took of it the last year it was open.

[woodbutcher]

The no home based dealers is nothing new.Back when I was 21 I tried to get an FFL.Was told I had to have a business address and store.That was 51 years ago.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[EDG]

I do not support any business that cannot compete price wise or attitude wise. There are a lot of incompetent and offensive jerks in the gun business. The only way they get my business is with a competitive price and product. Otherwise the guy can go broke because I can always find another dealer.

I really Do not use Or support any So called business That Does not have a " Store" other Than There Home or truck.
I never use Construction People, Electricians, Plumber and Trade . That works Out Of there Truck. . That the old Tail light Guarantee. No place Of Business No job From me. License without a Place of operation Just does not Cut it

[waksupi]

There is a small store front gun business locally that sells guns for just above their purchase price. They make their money from the smaller things that go along with the rifle, plus other hunting and shooting related products. They do well, as they get the customer through the door, and treat them right. That keeps them going back. Too many ffl's gouge customers. Gun people DO look at Shotgun News and other sources to see what the wholesale prices are, and know when they are being screwed.

[starmac]

I have to wonder if it is not a lot like car dealerships and most other types of retail dealers, where the wholesale prices is connected to volume. I have a feeling that a big online seller that sells 100 to a 1000 guns a month gets a much better wholesale price than one that sells 10 to 20. I have known several small shops that would order you what you wanted for 20 bucks or so above costs, but still couldn't compete with wallmart on long guns.

In Eastern New Mexico where I lived for years, most gun shops eventually quit stocking long guns after wallmart came in. Some of these had been established for years and were pretty good shops, those that stayed in business went to special order and only really kept handguns, some used guns, and some even collectible rifles, but eventually most quit stocking long guns. They made their money on gunsmithing, ammo, accessories and used guns.

[lefty o]

I have to wonder if it is not a lot like car dealerships and most other types of retail dealers, where the wholesale prices is connected to volume. I have a feeling that a big online seller that sells 100 to a 1000 guns a month gets a much better wholesale price than one that sells 10 to 20. I have known several small shops that would order you what you wanted for 20 bucks or so above costs, but still couldn't compete with wallmart on long guns.

In Eastern New Mexico where I lived for years, most gun shops eventually quit stocking long guns after wallmart came in. Some of these had been established for years and were pretty good shops, those that stayed in business went to special order and only really kept handguns, some used guns, and some even collectible rifles, but eventually most quit stocking long guns. They made their money on gunsmithing, ammo, accessories and used guns.

in just about any business, if you can get enough volume you will get a price break, which in effect will allow you to have lower prices, and sell more, etc etc...................

[MaryB]

Small gun shops near me do 70% of their business online via Gun Broker... and they take care of their loyal walk in customers. I went in one day for a brick of 22 and a guy who buys there maybe twice a year(and never a large purchase) had just bought one for $39.

Owner hands me my brick, says I put it on your tab, it was $25.

Other guy has a fit about paying $15 more until the owner tells him he can take his business elsewhere if he wants, you buy under $100 a year here, Mary spent $2,200 here in the last year so she gets a discount for volume. Dude stomps out the door saying he will never come back... yup a month later he was back wanting more 22lr because that shop was the only one with stock. He glared at me as he paid full retail then stomped out as we broke out laughing soon as the door closed. Heck I wasn't even buying that day, I came in to test a pistol on his range to see if I liked it and would buy it. Glock17, grips just don't fit my hand right... didn't buy that one but I tested the PK380 he had and put it on layaway right then and there.

[starmac]

Mary, why, especially since he was putting it on your tab, would your shop owner let a buyer know he is paying more. Sure sounds like someone I would try not to do business with.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup I wouldn't be to pleased either. He would sure loose any future business of mine. He could have at least had the class to wait till the guy left. How would you feel if you were in the grocery store in line and and had the identical cart of grocerys and the cashier charged you twice as much as the person ahead of you because you lived alone and didn't need as much food every month?

Mary, why, especially since he was putting it on your tab, would your shop owner let a buyer know he is paying more. Sure sounds like someone I would try not to do business with.

[lefty o]

dont believe everything you hear folks!

[RED BEAR]

I may be the odd one out I don't believe the gov. Has the right to regulate the gun industry. The court has ruled it is an individual right . another court just ruled that Florida had to let fellons vote because it is there right. I just don't think the gov should regulate rights under the constitution. The gov should stop regulating drugs ( then no war on drugs ). I am not a anarchists I do think we need laws. But as long as you are not harming any one but your self its nobody's business. A message I wish the gov could learn.

[MaryB]

Because the other customer was a pain who wasted a lot of his time he could have spent working on rifles... he was trying to get rid of him LOL

Mary, why, especially since he was putting it on your tab, would your shop owner let a buyer know he is paying more. Sure sounds like someone I would try not to do business with.