Plastic attached base wad slug prototype

[uncle dino]

I was finally able to swage my lead slug over a plastic base. Plastic extends approximately 1/2 inch into hollow base slug. Swaging them together keeps base in perfect alignment with slug, locking them together at the proper size. prying them apart nearly destroys slug. This slug is .729, 12 ga. 660 grains.. Hopefully this will prove to be accurate in smoothbore as well as rifled barrels. Plastic is hdpe I formed in hydraulic press with heated die. Should eliminate skirt collapse and wads from being jammed into base of slug. I'm going to try to get some jacketed ones made this weekend and do some accuracy testing.
Thanks. D

[Hogtamer]

That is Longbow's dream slug! Can even lube the cannelure grooves I suppose for a rifled barrel, but should do really well out of a smoothbore with no jacketing necessary. Nice shoulder to roll crimp too. Soft lead I guess? You are a wonder D!

[bikerbeans]

Very nice! I look forward to the range results.

BB

[cpileri]

You might be able to do what lots of us have tried and failed: equal brenneke!

[uncle dino]

I'm hoping so...still fiddling with temperatures..fine line between glob of goo and finished slug..I Finished the punches to make these in 20 ga last night. If I get them to work I'll do 10, 16, 28, and .410 also.

[longbow]

Now that is a nice slug! Yes, my dream slug! I am betting you see good results with that since it is all one piece and all aligned.

What powder and charge are you planning?

How deep is the hollow cavity?

Slug make? Is that one you designed and swaged?

I am jealous but good on you! Nice work.

Longbow

[uncle dino]

LB I was going to try a modest load of lil gun..42 grains under x12x with all hard cards and 1/4 cushion wad. I've been having very good results with heavier slugs with it in rifled shotgun. But I am always open to load suggestions. I also have 700x, 800x and some longshot. Going to dig out my old Ithaca smoothbore deerslayer for testing these. The hollow base measures .600 deep .500 diameter, the lead portion is .875 long. I'm sure I'm going to have to play with hollow base depth and length of plastic tail a bit to get the slug balanced correctly. Hopefully I'm close now. We will see. Yes these are my slugs I swage, nice simple design that hits like a sledgehammer. D

[longbow]

Looks like a winner to me!

If you have a good hollow base design that is weight forward balance then that added plastic skirt/wad it can only enhance the drag stabilization.

Like I said, that looks like a winner to me. That is a great idea of hot forming the HDPE then swaging the lead and plastic together.

Is the slug bore size or slightly larger? I've found that even wheelweight slugs tend to obturate and distort at firing if they are at all undersize. Your slug must be fairly soft lead if swaged.

I will be eagerly anticipating field results. I am hoping it shoots as good as it looks.

Longbow

[uncle dino]

.729 bore size, pure lead. I've got some 20 to 1 cores made up also, but I don't think I'll need a harder alloy for these. D

[FergusonTO35]

Cool! I would be interested in 20 gauge...

[uncle dino]

Hi guys, range report.. Results were not bad, but not great either. 7 slugs, 75 yards, Ithaca 37 open sights, paper plate target.

load: 3" federal,hull, 43 grains lil gun, x12x gas seal, hard card, 1/2 cushion wad, hard card, slug, roll crimp.
I normally don't put in cushion wad but I was running low on hard cards.
4 of seven on paper plate..3 in a 4" cluster, 1 on the edge, 1 high right, 2 high left, total group 14 inches.
I recovered 4 of the 7, base wad is staying on, no extra mystery holes in target. I would have liked to recover all 7 to be sure. I did notice my grooves are swaged nearly smooth from firing. But even all the way around.
I believe potential is there, just need to find the proper load for them. Would love suggestions and comments. D

[bikerbeans]

Maybe try real slow powder (4759 or rl17) and use your hdpe skirt as the gas seal? Eliminates all the wads with nothing but powder under the slug.

BB

[Hogtamer]

Not too bad though....rifle type sights or a bead only? 27.5 gr of your 800x (up to 30) over a fed 209a primer is a possibility, 700x a no-go. Steel would be my first choice. Oh yeah,fold crimp works too, leave 7/16" from top of hull to top of slug, the soft fed. hulls crimp easily.

[uncle dino]

Rifled sights..I've been reading mr hubels threads on slow powders. I've got some rl17 on order. But I don't think it would be safe for thin barrel smoothbore. Still got reading to do...been looking for steel for months, made of unobtainium here. D

[Cap'n Morgan]

I like your slugs! Pretty innovative!

What did the holes look like. Any signs of wobbling? Even though it's a heavy slug I would try a mild load (about 1000 fps or less) with a fast powder just to see what happens. I have an completely unfounded theory of the muzzle blast interfering with the slug at the muzzle - causing it to flutter or wobble. Especially in a smooth bore where you don't have the spin-stabilization to calm things down along the way.

No doubt there's a 'golden ratio' involved in the total length of a slugs and the location of Center Of Pressure. The problem is to find it! Some rocket scientist with the right software could probably design the perfect slug without ever firing a single shot. The rest of us must rely on trail and error...

[Hogtamer]

BPI has Steel now...
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Sho.../products/718/

[uncle dino]

No signs of slug yawing. Holes in target were nice and round..d

[uncle dino]

Much better second time around..I decided to change everything up..
I lightened slug up and made tail a little bit longer total weight 605 grains. Lightened up the load to 39 grains lil gun. This load only needed gas seal and 1 hard card with a fold crimp...2 3/4 cheddite hull..POI was significantly higher than last test. 75 yards
I used lead sled today as my shoulder is starting to get sore, I'm not sure if that contributed to the vertical stringing of this load.
D

[Hogtamer]

i like lighter slugs because my shoulder tells me so! You also made the projectile much more weight forward relative to OAL. Like an arrow with a weighted point the tail follows the nose and the long plastic base is a nice "fletching" on that lead arrow. My contention, however scientific, is extreme weight forward of the lee 7/8 oz vs the 1 oz is so much more consistently accurate. I have often gotten vertical stringing as thin barrels heat up. Documented this in an old thread. The physics of most things elude me but results do not.

[longbow]

turbo1889 had info on slug proportions/balance and it seems to me that there is a practical limit of the weight forward balance and that a slug of about 1 1/2 times long to diameter is best. Too much weight forward is bad. Seems counterintuitive but possibly at typical slug lengths (not long like an arrow) center of pressure and shock wave may have effects on the short body that a really long projectile would not see.

Just kinda thinking out loud here but I have tried very weight forward long slugs with poorer results than shorter slugs so that indicates to me that turbo had a point.

Longbow