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Thread: My Ruger "Single Eight" in ".25ACP+" vs "Handloader" .250 Magnum Auto.

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
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    My gunsmith is off on a Location Movie Shoot for about 3 weeks so my Projects are on Hold for the Moment.
    This is his "Bread and Butter Work" and gunsmith work fills in the time between.

    This time of year my 'Disposable Funds' shrink due to Property Tax bills and other 'End of Year' cost items.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 05-01-2017 at 02:19 PM.

  2. #42
    Boolit Master
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    Yesterday, December 1st 2016, I received my New PT&G "Premium 6.35x28.6mmSR STEWART Finish Chamber Reamer" in the USPS mail! YEA!!!!
    It will go, along with a Replacement 8-shot .22-MAG Ruger Single Six Cylinder, to have the chambers done over to this cartridge; Next week when my gunsmith is due back in the shop.
    This Cylinder, 'number three', will join my existing 'number one' in .25ACP and 'number four' in .250ALRM/6.35x32SR Stewart. 'Number two' is already in work as a .25 Magnum Auto/6.35x26mmSR Stewart cylinder.
    Future plans are for a 'number five' cylinder; which will be a Straight cylinder chamber design of .278" diameter to take .25ACP with out the normal Chamber Taper of semi-Auto pistols.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    Happy New Year as it is January 1st, A Sunday this year.
    My gunsmith is now back at work in the shop and now has my new Reamer and the donor cylinder resubmitted (I had submitted it earlier with my original reamer which turned out to be a ROUGHING chamber reamer).

    Now to be Patient as he has to 'Catch up on the Backlog before doing any of my "low budget items".

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    Jan.21st: No Word of Progress on my Cylinders yet.
    I do have an order in, and paid for, to Lee for three more "Opened" sizing dies; two in .32 sizing to .325" body diameter and one sizing to .288" body diameter. This will give me a spare .288" sizing die for my .25 caliber projects and both a working sizing die and a backup spare for my .32 Caliber projects.

    Also this month I have installed a solar power system, of nominal 5KW generating Maximum Capacity that so far seems to be running at about 60 percent average peak or around 35 percent mean levels due to the current Weather Patterns over my home.

    i incurred a Long term Personal 'Unsecured' loan to pay for the Installation; which I will need to pay off at about $202 a month for about 180 payments.

    The Installation included; all mountings, 17 large solar panels, 17 individual DC/DC power Conditioners, a 5KW DC/Ac power synchronous Inverter, DC and AC Safety disconnects, a new 200 Amp Power service panel, wiring, and will have an new Power 200 Amp capable Drop installed from the Los Angeles Department of water and Power Pole to my Home, which should happen within the next five business days.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

    PS: The "5 business Days" turned into "3 to 6 weeks" upon my calling my contractor again. Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 02-14-2017 at 03:27 PM.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master
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    Still No Progress on my cylinders nor my Sizing dies.

    Today I did get a call for an Inspection appointment from LA-DWP for today between 1000 and 1200.

    Chev. William

    PS: He Came looked, and did NOT approve the installation.
    1. The contractor use a Siemens Disconnect that has an opaque insulating ARC Shield in it so he could Not See either the Switch Contacts nor the Wire Connections. He wants a Disconnect without an ARC Shield it seems.
    2. He did not like that there was uneven dirt, tread down plants in front of the Service panel and wants a Smooth Hard surface at least 3ft x 3 ft for access to the Panel(s).
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 03-13-2017 at 06:51 PM.

  6. #46
    Boolit Master
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    Last week my contractor came out and replaced the Siemens Disconnect unit with a Larger 'Square D' Disconnect Switch and box. this one does NOT have anything between the Wires, Connections, and Switch Contacts to protect Users from accidental contact/Arc Flash Injuries except the outside weather cover.
    Also this last week I obtained some 18"x24"x2" Concrete Walkway paving 'stones' to place in front of the Service Panels and had my Yard Maintenance Service Person remove the Remains of the trod down plantings before setting the 'stones' in place.

    My contractor took photos of the Corrected/Updated Installation and emailed them to the LA-DWP inspector for proof of Correctins.

    I received an Email reply indicating the installation is now 'Approved' and is scheduled for LA-DWP to change out my Pole drop and install a "New" meter before He will issue an OK to Operate my system. They indicated it could be about SIX WEEKS for them to get around to the work due to Other Work still having Priority. It seems there is still Storm Damage to be repaired first.

    On Other subjects:
    1. I now have Four 'Story 8-Shot replacement Cylinders' for the Ruger Single Six Revolver. these will be used to make None Tapered Wall Chambered Cylinders for my Custom Revolver.

    2. I also Have a .278" diameter straight piloted chucking reamer that is out to have the Pilot, which is too Large, ground down to take replaceable pilot bushings similar to my Premium chamber Reamers.

    3. Weather here has been Dry and Warmer than normal for this time of year. It looks like I will need to Water My remaining Plantings tomorrow. This will be a first watering in about Two months.

    4. I have sent a Barrel and Liner to Taylor Machine to have the Liner installed. This is a 'Bubba Shortened' 1890 .22WRF barrel that will be lined to .25ACP and end up about 20 inches long, instead of the Winchester 24 inch long originals.

    5. No word yet on my three Lee 'Opened' sizing dies; but they should be getting close to completion now.

    6. My gunsmith is still backed up and not accepting any 'new work' trying to get the Backlog down again. they 'closed the shop last Thursday for a Location Shoot for a TV series. I do not know if they were also able to get in any Backlog work at the same time.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    May 1st and here is an Update:

    1. My Four 'Story 8-Shot replacement Cylinders' for the Ruger Single Six Revolver are still waiting for my gunsmith to OK my bringing them in for re-chambering. these will be used to make None Tapered Wall Chambered Cylinders for my Custom Revolver.

    2. No word yet from the re-grinder on my .278" diameter straight piloted chucking reamer that is out to have the Pilot, which is too Large, ground down to take replaceable pilot bushings similar to my Premium chamber Reamers.

    3. Weather here has been Dry, normal for this time of year. It looks like I will need to Water My remaining Plantings again. interestingly, my Rose bushes have been Blooming this year Far more than the last three Years.

    3. I have Received the Lined 20" Long 'Stevens .25 ACP' lined Barrel back from John Taylor, it is a Beautiful job. This is a 'Bubba Shortened' 1890 .22WRF barrel that is lined to .25ACP and was 20' inches long, instead of the Winchester 24 inch long originals. I now have this "Carbine length" barrel ready for final fitting to a Win. 1890 type three Action I am converting to a .25ACP pump action Repeater.

    5. My three Lee 'Opened' sizing dies Arrived!

    6. My gunsmith is still backed up and not accepting any 'new work' trying to get the Backlog down again. I do not know if they were also able to get in any Backlog work at the same time.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 05-06-2017 at 06:47 PM.

  8. #48
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    Whoa!!
    Did I read it correctly that you're going to convert an 1890 to 25acp? I've got an old 1906 in my garage, the barrel doesn't show any lands or grooves, just rust. It used to belong to my uncle, and was a rust-pile when I got it from my cousins who stored it in their basement. It still has a couple of pipe wrench marks on the barrel where they had tested their gunsmithing skills, and the bolt is missing. I had thought about converting it to 25acp because it would just be different, but I wasn't sure how to convert the cartridge stop and lifter to fit a 25. I'm going to have to follow this to see what you do.

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    Yes, you did read it correctly. The Thread Title is:
    Winchester 1890 conversion project.

    As I state, it is a "Putter Project" and is going slowly as time and money permit and is being done to Type 3 1890 Winchester parts I bought off of Ebay over time.

    From your Post I gather you have a rusty one that is missing the Bolt Assembly.
    Do you have the Rest of the Rifle parts or are other items missing?
    is your carrier/lifter a 'single length cartridge' type or a 'multiple length cartridge' type?

    If your Barrel is in need of Lining, I recommend John Taylor of Taylor Machine; a Poster on this web site. He does an excellent job, is Quick of Work and Reasonable in Cost.
    My relined Barrel has a ! in 14" Twist to it that is 'slow' for th eheavier bullet sI intend to try but suitable for Factory 50 grain .25ACP loads.

    My type 3 action has the Bolt Lugs protruding through the Sides of the Front Housing.
    A type 2 actin has Bolt Lugs NOT protruding through the Housing sides.

    Be aware that the action design will require careful 'tuning' of the Firing pin tip length to be able to fire a cartridge yet allow the Bolt to be unlocked and opened after firing as the firing pin remains extended during the Unlock movement dragging the tip Up on the Primer and Case Head.

    I am using a 5/64" diameter Dowel Pin for my new firing Pin tip as an easily Replace item if mine gets bent or broken in development.

    My Intended Carrier/Lifter is a Modified .22WRF one that will be fitted with the 'Toggle' part from a multiple Length cartridge type (usually listed as a "S-L-LR" carrier/Lifter assembly) as the WRF one wil require only opening the cartridge Recess to accept the .25 ACP cartridge Rim then 'slotting' the Lower lip to take the 'toggle' and drilling the retaining pin hole.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  10. #50
    Boolit Master
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    the Last week of Evenings has been employed in Swaging down 90 once fired 5.7x28mm Cases to .25ACP diameters.
    I am doing this in a Four step Swaging process using Lee 'Opened" .25ACP carbide ring Sizing Dies. The 'opened nominal diameters are .300", .288" .284", then a standard one at .276" that leaves the base at about .280" diameter, followed by a "Hollywood Engineering" Hardened Sizing die that brings the base to about .277" diameter.

    So far this case lot is coming out at about 1.240" length due to 'growth' in the swaging process as the diameter is reduced.

    I still need to expand the Neck/shoulder areas to fit my .250" diameter Jacketed bullets using a 'homemade expander punch' of about .250" made from a 1/4 inch diameter Drill Blank.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  11. #51
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    Yes, the only thing missing from the rifle is just the bolt assembly. The 1906 I have is labeled, S-L-LR, and has the bolt locking lugs protruding through the sides of the housing. I was going to locate a bolt and modify this to 25acp, "just because", and stopped when I tried to fit a case into the lifter assembly, I kinda chickened out and started to rethink whether I should just sleeve it to 22RF. I was wondering about the firing pin issue. After I got a bolt, I was going to see if the firing pin and bolt could be modified and have a return spring installed to push it back into the bolt housing, the inertia of the pin itself would cause it to protrude through the bolt housing to strike the primer.
    I'm headed off now to find the other thread.
    Thanks!

  12. #52
    Boolit Master
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    I See Type 3 Bolt assemblies often on Ebay (I search with "Winchester 1890" or "Winchester 1890 1906 62 Rifle" to get the Part auctions listed).

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  13. #53
    Boolit Master
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    Back to .25 Cartridges:
    I loaded my Formed "6,35x28.6mmSR" (.25 Stevens Long Sizes) Cases with Win Magnum Small Pistol Primers and took five to load with H-110 Propellant in stepped charge Weights behind resized (to .250"-.251" Diameter) Hornady #2510 60 grain Flat Soft Point Jacketed bullets.
    Charge wights were:
    6.0 grain (visually below bullet Base when Seated), 6.5 grain ( Visually Just below Bullet), 7.0 grain (Visually Just above Bullet Seated Base) 7.5 grain (Compressed), and 8.0 grain (Heavy Compressed).
    All cartridges were Seated so they were less than 1.400" long overall and then separately Roll Crimped with the Crimped Mouth rolling into the Bullet cannelure.

    All bullet Noses were Distorted by the Radius cup of the Lee Stock .25ACP seating Stem, with the top of the Jacket Bulging out slightly to somewhat behind the Soft lead tip.

    Now comes the Quandary:
    Should I fire these Loads out of my Ruger Single Eight Revolver's ".250ALRM" chambered Cylinder across A Chronograph?

    Obviously; there WILL be High Pressures Developed from these Loads.
    How High?
    NO current Idea.

    Closest Guess; the 8.0 may develop about 1650fps out of my 10-5/8" long Barrel.

    What Do the readers Think?

    NOTE: There Is NO Powder Manufacturer Published Load data for this Powder in this Cartridge. This is a "Wildcat" Cartridge made from a CF "5.7x28mm" Once Fired Case by Swaging its diameter down from .314" to .276" in four steps after expanding the Neck/Shoulder to .250" Inside Diameter.
    The Parent case was rated for about 50,000psi MAP so the Walls are thicker than original .25 Stevens RF cases which were Rated at about 25,000psi MAP.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 06-06-2017 at 01:10 AM.

  14. #54
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    Test Firing still On Hold due to my 'mobility problems' and Finances at this time.

    In addition, my gunsmith is out of the shop for Joint replacement surgery and recovery at this time, so no progress on my two cylinder re-chamber projects Pending in his shop.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. Willaim

  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    Placed an order for a .25ACP Finish Revolver Chamber reamer with JGS Precision Machining in Coos Bay. This Reamer Will be for a Straight Cylindrical Chamber of .2795" Diameter.
    My intent is to Reduce or Eliminate The Fired Case BULGE just forward of the Web from a SAAMI Tapered Wall Chamber. using my Dial Caliper, I measured a new Case at .2760" Diameter at both the Neck And At The Wall forward of the web.
    A Fired Case measures .2845" over the BULGE and about .280" at the Neck.
    Yes, i know the Dial Caliper is only Accurate to .001" but I am Interpolating the pointer Position between Marks to give an Idea of the diameter Increase that I have to remove in sizing the fired Brass.

    JGS said it would take about eight Weeks at current Order backlog.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  16. #56
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    Terrific thread !

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chev. William View Post
    There are Three Listed CF replacements for the .25 Stevens RF cartridge.
    the first one I found is the ".25-10 Halsted" which is made from .22 Hornet parent brass and required reboring the rifles to accept .257" diameter bullets. I found it can also be loaded with.251" bullets and so could use the original bore/Groove dimensions ,which it shares with the .25ACP and alternative cartridge that fits the .25 Stevens Chambers but due to the LONG distance from cartridge mouth to rifling seems to be a little poorer in accuracy department.

    The third cartridge is "6.35x28.6mmSR Stewart/.250ALS" pair of designs. The two share case dimensions in general but differ in the Parent brass from which they are Made.

    Case length for the Halsted, the Stewart, and the .250ALS is 1.125" nominal; diameter is .276" for the body; rims vary from .302" to .348" diameter; Rim thickness is limited to about .050 nominal (.043" min to .053" max; overall length varies depending upon bullet and intended use. 1.400" max for my Ruger Revolver due to cylinder length and up to about 2.03" for a Single shot STRONG Action Rifle with a 120 grain Plastic tip Boat tail bullet and loaded to 50,000psi MAP. I just bought two more LW Blanks for Barrels and they currently are just over 1" diameter and about 23.8" long. Mr. Woodward, of LW in America, tells me the current barrel blanks may be made into accurate barrels with only loosing about .050" of each end for a maximum barrel length of 23.7" possible. Twist Rate for the Latest barrel blanks is stated as 1 turn in 9.8" RH.

    Willie Clark told me he turned my barrel between centers, and let it cool between cuts to retain its innate accuracy. I have the Cut off section from my LW Blank that he used, it measures 12-3/4" long.

    Other Case lengths I will be getting cylinders cut for are:
    "6.35x26mmSR Stewart/.25MACP (Magnum Auto Colt Pistol)" at 1.056" maximum and 1.024" nominal Case length (the 1.055" is the Same as .22WMR case length).
    "6.35x28.6mmSR Stewart/.250ALS (Auto Long Stevens)" at 1.126" maximum and 1.125" Nominal Trim case length (same as .25 Stevens (Long) RF cases).

    In my Ruger all of the Cartridges are limited to a loaded length of less than 1.405"; hence the practical limit of 1.400" and less.

    Now If I can find some Manufacturer to make double ended wadcutters of about 60 to 70 grains that size to .251"-.252" or Hollow ones in the same weight range (hollow on one end so they could be loaded either Hollow Point or Hollow Base) . . . . .

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    I will try to make you up some of those hollow wad cutters you want. I can do it with my swaging set up. Just have to make the dies. .251" ? I could powder coat them too if you want. No grease groves, Can't swage in the grease grooves.
    AKA hans.pcguy

  18. #58
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffer View Post
    I will try to make you up some of those hollow wad cutters you want. I can do it with my swaging set up. Just have to make the dies. .251" ? I could powder coat them too if you want. No grease groves, Can't swage in the grease grooves.
    Traffer,
    That offer Sounds Very Good!
    .250" Swaged Diameter seems like it would allow for the Powder coating Thickness and Still fit my Cases And cylinder Throats.
    Please Advise what I need to pay You for them.
    I live in Sun Valley, CA 91352-3568 for Shipping charge determinations.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  19. #59
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    Will let you know when I get close to having them done. I checked today and don't have the correct reamers. I might have to buy some and I get them from China so it may be a couple of weeks. There may be a way I can do it without reamers. I will be checking that out in the next couple of days. You can pay shipping but since I offered, I wouldn't charge you for the bullets.
    AKA hans.pcguy

  20. #60
    Boolit Master
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    More Puttering:
    This Morning, while it was Cool in the Morning Overcast and Fog, I finished De-capping my last Batch of Once Fired 5.7x28mm Cases, found one with a Live Primer AND a Bullet Inside! Set it aside until i had completed the De-capping of the rest! Then used my Lee "Universal Expander Die to Over Expand the Neck far enough to let The Bullet drop out, it was a Jacketed Flat Base one that weighed about 30 Grains.
    This makes about 3000 Cases de-capped and of tht about 700 That have been resized down and trimmed for my Experiments so far, with another 410 in the process.
    I think Now I have almost A "Lifetime supply' for my experiments.
    Most of the Current lot seem to be Date Coded as 2014 Manufacture FNB 'military' as they had Crimped in Primers.
    They Probably will reform And lengthen to about 1.230" Length and I will Trim Them as Needed for my experiments.
    1.125" for .25ALS; 1.055" for .25 Magnum Auto; .960" For .25ALR as Needed or as they Neck split to extent The useful life. Annealing is NOT a Choice as these Are Polymer coated cases.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check