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Thread: My Ruger "Single Eight" in ".25ACP+" vs "Handloader" .250 Magnum Auto.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
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    My Ruger "Single Eight" in ".25ACP+" vs "Handloader" .250 Magnum Auto.

    Back in November 2015 I had some "disposable funds" so I Started a Ruger "Single six" custom conversion from .22CAL to CF, 8 shot, 10-5/8" long barreled Revolver chambered for ".25ACP/6.35 Browning" and longer wildcats of the Same diameters.

    I now have the revolver and the Second outing went Very Well.

    The first Cylinder started out as a replacement .22WMR 8 shot cylinder that was reamed and chambered for .25ACP cartridges.

    I am still getting used to the revolver and my grip is still 'weak' as it still feels 'muzzle heavy'.

    The Following Loads are NOT Recommended for "Blow-Back" type actions but work well in my Ruger Revolver.

    - A 63 grain Lead FN "hunters Supply" bullet Tumble Lubed and sized .251" over 3.0 Grains of BE-86 Propellant in PPU .25ACP brass. Muzzle rise is about 1-1/2 target height and muzzle noise is about .22WRF or weak .22WMR. Seems to shoot to same point of aim as Factory .25ACP loads at about 7 yards.

    - A 52 grain Lead RFN "Ranch Dog" .25ACP Bullet Tumble Lubed and sized .251" over 3.1 grains of BE-86 Propellant. Muzzle rise about 1 target height and muzzle noise similar to above load. Also seems to shoot to the same point of aim as above.

    - Factory Fiocchi "6,35 Browning/25 Auto" 50 grain FMJ loads pattern about 3 to 4 inch circle about half bull to left of point of aim. Sights need further adjustments.

    I am sure target performance will improve with Practice, Practice, Practice.

    I am Very Pleased with this revolver so far, and my gunsmith is chambering the Second cylinder to ".250ALRM/6.35x32mmSR Stewart".

    the third and fourth cylinders are awaiting their reamers (also from PT&G like the other two).

    I will Post Photos later.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 06-08-2016 at 02:56 AM. Reason: Add suscription

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Hi Chev,

    Sounds like a very interesting project. What brand of barrel blank did you use?

    Take care, Tom

  3. #3
    Boolit Master


    nagantguy's Avatar
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    Let's see some pics, this sounds so cool! What a great little working gun.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    A custom single action in .25 Auto. Pure awesomeness, can't wait for pics!!
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, .30 WCF, .45-70 Gov't.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatume View Post
    Hi Chev,

    Sounds like a very interesting project. What brand of barrel blank did you use?

    Take care, Tom
    My Barrel started life as a "Lothar Walther .25ACP/6.35 browning Cr-Mo Alloy Steel Pistol Barrel blank" of about 1:9.4 to 1:9.8 twist, 6 groove, .243" bore/.250"groove diameters and roughly 1.1 inch diameter by 23.4" length.
    It was Turned, fitted, and finish set up by Willie Clark of "American Gun Works"(AGW), Glendale California.
    The Bluing was done by an outside shop contracted by AGW. they sent my barrel out as part of a Lot of items so the Price for the bluing was very reasonable.
    Willie tapered the Blank to take Ruger unloading rod and housing and the Ruger front sight from the Original barrel that came on the Used Ruger New Model Convertible Single Six Revolver I bought as a 'donor' from AGW (a consignment sale from a Glendale LEO I was told).


    Under Construction At gunsmiths. Left Side.


    Under Construction At Gunsmiths, Right Side.
    nagantguy and FergusonTO35 : Here are Some Photos.


    Left Side finished and Assembled.


    Right Side With Cylinder out and showing Cartridges.


    Close up of side of cylinder, still marked "22-MAG" but chambered for ".25ACP".

    My testing of the Revolver so far is limited to .25ACP cases but NOT .25ACP Traditional Loads!
    I started with Factory .25ACP to get a baseline of operation.
    Then Started "playing' with Hand loads.
    BE-86 Shows promise in this case. I have fired loads up to 3.1 grains (behind 52 grain Lead Bullets) and 3.0 grains (behind 63 grain Lead bullets) to date.
    Heavier bullets seem to give useful performance even in this tiny case.
    And there is the Future Cylinder, presently at my Gunsmith being chambered for a 1.250" Case length '25ACP' design called both .250ALRM and 6.35x32mmSR, using my PT&G made ".250ALRM Finish Chamber Reamer".
    Last edited by Chev. William; 07-20-2017 at 09:58 PM. Reason: add more Photos

  6. #6
    Boolit Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    You da man!! Now go show that to all the single action snobs on the Ruger Forum.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, .30 WCF, .45-70 Gov't.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    That is looking great. Nice job. I think it is a great idea to make a revolver that can fire .25 ACP rounds too.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I think this will be a very useful modification and cartridge, especially given how hard it has been to find any of the rimfire cartridges for the past four years. I realize the long barrel will be an advantage for velocity, but I would rather have a shorter one, something about 6" or so.

    I have no experience with it; but Elmer Keith lobbied for the Single Six to be chambered for the .25 Stevens rimfire, stating it would be a better small game cartridge that any .22 LR or WMR from a revolver.

    Robert

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Chev. William's Avatar
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    There are Three Listed CF replacements for the .25 Stevens RF cartridge.
    the first one I found is the ".25-10 Halsted" which is made from .22 Hornet parent brass and required reboring the rifles to accept .257" diameter bullets. I found it can also be loaded with.251" bullets and so could use the original bore/Groove dimensions ,which it shares with the .25ACP and alternative cartridge that fits the .25 Stevens Chambers but due to the LONG distance from cartridge mouth to rifling seems to be a little poorer in accuracy department.

    The third cartridge is "6.35x28.6mmSR Stewart/.250ALS" pair of designs. The two share case dimensions in general but differ in the Parent brass from which they are Made.

    Case length for the Halsted, the Stewart, and the .250ALS is 1.125" nominal; diameter is .276" for the body; rims vary from .302" to .348" diameter; Rim thickness is limited to about .050 nominal (.043" min to .053" max; overall length varies depending upon bullet and intended use. 1.400" max for my Ruger Revolver due to cylinder length and up to about 2.03" for a Single shot STRONG Action Rifle with a 120 grain Plastic tip Boat tail bullet and loaded to 50,000psi MAP. I just bought two more LW Blanks for Barrels and they currently are just over 1" diameter and about 23.8" long. Mr. Woodward, of LW in America, tells me the current barrel blanks may be made into accurate barrels with only loosing about .050" of each end for a maximum barrel length of 23.7" possible. Twist Rate for the Latest barrel blanks is stated as 1 turn in 9.8" RH.

    Willie Clark told me he turned my barrel between centers, and let it cool between cuts to retain its innate accuracy. I have the Cut off section from my LW Blank that he used, it measures 12-3/4" long.

    Other Case lengths I will be getting cylinders cut for are:
    "6.35x26mmSR Stewart/.25MACP (Magnum Auto Colt Pistol)" at 1.056" maximum and 1.024" nominal Case length (the 1.055" is the Same as .22WMR case length).
    "6.35x28.6mmSR Stewart/.250ALS (Auto Long Stevens)" at 1.126" maximum and 1.125" Nominal Trim case length (same as .25 Stevens (Long) RF cases).

    In my Ruger all of the Cartridges are limited to a loaded length of less than 1.405"; hence the practical limit of 1.400" and less.

    Now If I can find some Manufacturer to make double ended wadcutters of about 60 to 70 grains that size to .251"-.252" or Hollow ones in the same weight range (hollow on one end so they could be loaded either Hollow Point or Hollow Base) . . . . .

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 09-18-2016 at 12:11 AM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk42gunner View Post
    I think this will be a very useful modification and cartridge, especially given how hard it has been to find any of the rimfire cartridges for the past four years. I realize the long barrel will be an advantage for velocity, but I would rather have a shorter one, something about 6" or so.

    I have no experience with it; but Elmer Keith lobbied for the Single Six to be chambered for the .25 Stevens rimfire, stating it would be a better small game cartridge that any .22 LR or WMR from a revolver.

    Robert
    I have some Experience with .25 Stevens (Long) Rf from my experiments trying ot develop a RF Adapter case for it and a VERY Few original Cartridges I fired (they were purchased at low 'collector prices' of about $1.00 each at the time). Out to 100 yard limit of the range I was using, and given the rifle used was a Stevens 1894 Favorite with a Stevens '.25 Stevens' barrel that was a bit pitted in the bore, they held to about 6" circle 'Standing Off Hand' and about a 4" circle Sitting at a Bench.
    Writers of the Era (1890s) said the rifle and cartridge was of Target Accuracy out to 200 yards but had a 'high trajectory', which was understandable from the RFN nose on the 67 grain bullet and 10 to 11 grain BP loading reportedly yielding 1100 fps.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. Willaim

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post


    You da man!! Now go show that to all the single action snobs on the Ruger Forum.
    Which Ruger Forum?
    Cases, that is! Best Regards,


    Chev. William

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earlwb View Post
    That is looking great. Nice job. I think it is a great idea to make a revolver that can fire .25 ACP rounds too.
    Interestingly, the .25ACP is similar in length to the .25 Stevens Short, may be fired in .25 Stevens chambers (if the Firearm is converted to CF). and is within pressure limits of the Cartridge.

    As such it makes a Very good 'plinking' and possibly small Varmint/small Predator control round IF fired in a Barrel long enough to get the Velocity up and the Noise down.
    In my Opinion the .25ACP was relegated to short Barrels and range by Manufacturers who did not pursue longer barrel uses. Admittedly, the short barrel pistols WERE effective at their Intended Ranges and Targets. Since John Browning Invented it very little development has gone into it as a testament to John's abilities. He wanted a Better feeding round that mimicked the .22LR cartridge in performance out of a Pocket pistol and he got it.

    "Ballistics By The Inch" did some testing on factory .25ACP in a TC single shot pistol starting with an 18" barrel and shortening it progressively to 2" while chronographing velocities along the way. they found Velocity increased with Barrel length up to about 16" for Factory Loads developed in 2" Test barrels.
    17,400psi CIP rating isn't even the level of .22LR (23,000psi) or .22WMR (24,000psi).
    Current SAAMI rating is 25,000psi MAP (Piezo) so there IS room for Improvement.

    The typical 'Blow-Back' Action semi-automatic Pocket Pistol are not designed nor tuned to handle higher pressures than the CIP ratings. A better Action is needed for higher pressures and Manufacturers are 'loathe' to chance a "+P" or "++P" loading in the case due to the Large number of weak design Semi-auto pistols in existence.

    Hand Loading for a STRONG Action is possible and I am doing it.
    I have fired 3.1 grains of BE-86 behind a 52 grain bullet out of my Ruger but would not do that out my 1894 Stevens CF converted Favorite action, which I limit to 'sonic' velocity loads.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. Willaim
    Last edited by Chev. William; 07-20-2017 at 10:06 PM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Range Time Today. Shot 100 PPU Factory 50 gr .25ACP at 7 yards working on my 'Hold' and tweaking The Rear sight to center the "pattern". At least the "pattern" is basically round now so I may have improved slightly. 7 yard "pattern is about the Diameter of a 25 yard Target Black area. I was using a 6 O'clock Sight Picture and elbows resting on the Bench with two hands on the Grip.

    After the Range Session I took my Ruger to my gunsmith so he can complete fitting of the Second Cylinder to the Frame. This cylinder is chambered for my ".250ALRM" and will also take my '6.35x32mmSR" if OAL on both is limited to 1.400 inches. The nominal 1.250" case lengths will limit the Exposed bullet nose of 0.150 inch to stay within limits.
    For alternate Cartridges, such as ".250ALS" and "6.35x28.6mmSR" with a nominal 1.125 inch Case the Nose Exposure can be up to 0.275". For further alternates: the .25 Magnum Auto and 6.35x26mmSR at 1.055" case length would allow up to 0.348" nose exposure.

    Now That sounds like an interesting thought.

    A Spire point bullet of 74 grains or 85 grains with a Charge of suitable propellant, a small bore 'Whisperer' perhaps?

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 06-17-2016 at 02:07 PM.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    Last fall at a small local show a guy had a neat little German semi-auto carbine in 6.35mm. His
    story was a relative brought it home from WW2. Had it been in better condition I might have
    bought it. Think maker was Dryse, had lots of parts, that's what put me off. He wanted $500
    and didn't know if it was serviceable. That is the only rifle I have ever seen for 25acp.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    I found a couple of posts that confirm 'Dryse' and 'Tinex(sp?)' about WW1 era made and sold in Europe some Carbines in .25ACP. Very Rare now.
    Chev. William.
    A CF converted Stevens '.25 Stevens' or '.25 Stevens short' rifle could be made into a .25ACP rifle.
    A Marlin Levermatic could be converted to CF and re-barreled to shoot .25ACP. (Marlin Did Make a CF Version of their Levermatic: the Model 62, in .30 Carbine and .256 Magnum.)
    .25ACP cartridges currently are loaded to CIP limit of 17,400psi MAP equivalent.
    Hand Loading .25ACP to SAAMI MAP of 25,000psi can add some more Interest to such a rifle.
    Using a heavier bullet is also a possibility in a Rifle, or a Strong None Blow-Back Action Hand gun.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 06-19-2016 at 12:50 AM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master






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    I remember years ago bowen did a 4 inch j frame in 25acp with moon clips. I thought that would make a great plinker.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    My gunsmith finished reaming the other 7 chambers in my Second Eight shot cylinder for my Ruger Single Eight in .25ACP. This cylinder is chambered using my ".250ALRM" finishing reamer (made by PT&G) to accept Cartridges of 1.400" OAL and case lengths up to 1.260".
    The ".250ALRM" is similar to "6.35x32mmSR Stewart" but Derived from new .22 Hornet PPU Brass by Swageing it down to .276" body diameter all the way to the top of the Rim, and then machining the rim to thickness (.050") and diameter (.304"-.312").
    The "Metric" designation is related to my having based it upon "5.7x28mm" Brass, also Swaged down to .276" body diameter.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. Willaim

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Too cool!

    When .22 lr ammo got impossible to find, started thinking it was too bad we don't have a rimmed .25 revolver round that could be reloaded with cast boolits for less than .22s.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Find a Used Ruger Convertible Single Six and you have The Donor for a .25ACP Revolver that can handle Stronger Hand loads in the .25ACP case.

    In the conversion use a Barrel longer than 6 inches to get better propellant efficiency out of your Hand Loads. My 10-5/8 inch long barrel may be a little muzzle heavy for a Hunting Revolver.

    A good gunsmith can convert an RF Ruger to CF at reasonable cost.
    Converting to Eight Shot is more Time consuming.

    Just remember Your custom Ruger will not be Repaired by Ruger in the future without conversion back to original 'as Manufactured' configuration, so keep the Parts you Change out.

    Best regards,
    Chev. William
    Last edited by Chev. William; 07-20-2017 at 10:10 PM.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Could you post your barrel source?

    I've got a rook rifle that could use a new barrel, and a .25acp would be about perfect for it.
    Nozombies.com Practical Zombie Survival

    I collect all things .32. If you have something you don't need, please let me know!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check