32 remington, case fireforming, can I do this?

[gunhawk]

I am trying to arrive at 32 Remington cases from 30-30 Winchester brass.
I have once fired, resized 30-30 brass and had the rim turned off by a machinist, and extractor groove cut, then run this case through 32 remington full length resizer die.
I chambered and extracted this case thru a Remington Model 8 autoloader, caliber 32 Remington, and that worked OK.
Question is: Can I "fireform this case into a 32 remington case?
If that is Ok (safe and will work) to do, how would be recommended way to do that? (best way to "fireform it?)
Again, want to get reloadable 32 remington case from this.
Thanks for any info.

[skeettx]

Gunhawk
Welcome on your first posting.

To answer your question, start with a low end load in the reloading manual and they should fire form just fine.
Page 293 of Lyman #45 Reloading manual

Please report back on your efforts

Mike

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-LYMAN-R...AAAOSwbYZXUFlV

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/561738819

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/562351984

[ascast]

gunhawk, I use about 8-10grains of Unique, fill the case with cream of wheat or dry rice. A twist of tissue paper holds it all in.
Point straight up and shoot. This may require a second run with culled bullet if your brass is old or work hardened. Use old suspect primers, they will be fine.

[leadman]

I also recommend Cream of Wheat cereal. After the powder, which you may have to adjust to get a fully formed case, put the cow in and light tap the case on the bench to settle it. I use a wax plug in the mouth of the neck to keep the contents in the case. I do alot of this and this method works well. I to use primers obtained from various sources.

[243winxb]

http://www.huntingtons.com/dies_caseform.html Notes:
Case forming dies are for the reloader interested in forming cases from one caliber to another. This is done either because the case needed is prohibitively expensive or it is otherwise unavailable.

The specific steps necessary to form cases will vary greatly depending on what changes must be made to the parent case and may include initial forming, separate base forming, annealing the brass, making the neck larger or smaller, cutting the cartridge rim and fireforming the case in the firearm's chamber to obtain the finished caliber.

Case forming dies are designed to reduce the case by steps to eliminate case stress or collapse and to prolong case life. There will be one or more form dies for each caliber. After forming and trimming, cases must then be full length sized, using the full length sizer in the reloading die set for the finished caliber. RCBS does not recommend using full length sizer dies for the actual case forming process.

Case forming dies (threaded standard 7/8 x 14 unless otherwise noted) will withstand the normal case forming pressures encountered but are not intended to swage the base of the case. When that is required, a special Base Form die is needed. Base Form dies are unthreaded and require the use of a 3-ton arbor press.

Some cases will need to be shortened after initial forming. A Trim Die is designed so that a mill type file can be used to trim the case to the correct overall length without damaging the surface of the die.

Frequently, changes to a case will result in brass that is too thick at the case's neck. A Neck Reamer, if needed, may be chucked in a tap wrench or in a hand drill. A drill press is not recommended.

Suggestions:

A search of MidwayUSA's product offering using "RCBS" followed by the name of the specific finished caliber needed will give a listing of all the RCBS dies available and may help to show what will be needed in that specific case- forming process.

Caliber-specific information and general instructions on case forming can be found in "The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions" by John J. Donnelly, product number 815626, and in "Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges" by Ken Howell, product number 942114.

RCBS is also available at 800-533-5000 between 6:30 AM and 3:00 PM Pacific time Monday through Friday for questions about what will be needed to form cases.

[EDG]

If you are a stickler for case formed correctly the first time without fire forming you could buy .38-55 Win brass and form it so that your shoulder is in the correct location.

[gunhawk]

Update: First time doing this. With some boolits on hand, (170gr) loaded with minimum load of IMR 3031, and fired for case forming. Action functioned fine with good case ejection. Fired case length still well within specs. Primer and case looked good. Would say a successful fireforming.

[skeettx]

Good report, please keep us informed
Thanks
Mike

[gunhawk]

After taking the summer mostly off from fooling around with this gun, as fall arrived I have been reloading and shooting some of these reformed and fireformed cases I mentioned that were made from 30-30 brass by a machinist. They have been working quite well; have always functioned properly in the gun, ie load and eject, and no signs of any problems. Should mention I have been using minimum and slightly above that loads using IMR 3031 and now IMR 4320. Have some H4895 but lack any loading data for that powder.
By the way, looking for any experiences on powders you use in the model 8 rifles, in 32 Rem. and also 35 Rem. calibers. Looking to keep no higher than mid-range loads in my gun.(32 Rem) Thanks for any input / advice.

[380AUTO]

My Remington model 81 chambered for 300 Sav really shines with 38 grains of IMR3031 With a hornady 150 grain SP. I can consistently shoot clover leafs with this combination at 100 yards

[georgerkahn]

My Remington Model 8 is chambered for the 32 Remington. A great source of cases were those formed by GRUMPA on this site. (They are very comparably and even lower priced than "original" 32 Rem, and seem to last forever -- truly the Energizer Bunny of cases, reload after reload). My load is allllmost the same as 380AUTO's, 'cept I use an even-Steven 35.0 grains of IMR3031. It functions the Model 8 superbly, and -- I'm too lousy a shot for "cloverleafs" -- generally gives ~3 to 4 inch groups at 75 yards. (My Model 8 doesn't have the bestest barrel -- it was made, after all, in 1914!) I have, too, a Model 14 chambered in 32Rem, and this loading works equally well in this 1913 vintage firearm.
geo

[Harter66]

I have a Model 14 Rem in 32 also .

For my rifle I found that the 30-30 and 32 WS was too long . Also that the shoulders were short so the new over size neck up/false shoulder routine was in order .

Bertram brass stocks 30 Rem brass . In the course of a search for 257 Robert I found a fellow willing to part with a small quantity or factory ammo . At that moment 32 Rem was easier to come by and cheaper than 257 or 7x57.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I lubricate cases for fireforming (case sizing lube). Cases can fill chamber more smoothly without stretching.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If you are a stickler for case formed correctly the first time without fire forming you could buy .38-55 Win brass and form it so that your shoulder is in the correct location.

So you can, but this reminds me of something that came up a while back, in a post about forming .255 Winchester. In the database of my Load From a Disk program the thickness of brass near the head is given as .029in., .30-30 as .024in. and .38-55 as .019in.I don't know the source of that information, and it doesn't necessarily cover all brands and all times, of course. But I would feel happier about doing what you suggest with .375 Winchester, at .228in., which is virtually a modernised version of the .38-55.

A lot has been said about dangers in fireforming with cream of wheat - and called alarmist by some. In moderate pressures with bulleted loads, I think it is part-way alarmist. But in pure case processing with no bullet, I think it is harmless. After all you want is to get brass-expanding pressure with the minimum of powder that will achieve it, and there is a big gap between forming brass and deforming steel.

I wouldn't, however, use anything hard and granular, and rice is the classic example. One of my favourite books on shotgun and smoothbore slug technology is General Journée's "Tir des fusils de chasse", which is surprisingly relevant today, for a man who commanded a division in 1914. It has never been translated or properly reprinted, but describes testing with unusual wadding materials. Rice (and to know why anybody ever thought of that would be a fine thing) produced strangely high pressures, even without a bottlenecked case.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I lubricate cases for fireforming (case sizing lube). Cases can fill chamber more smoothly without stretching.

That is a good idea as long as the pressure is moderate. I wouldn't do it for fireforming while actually shooting bullets. With a rimmed case a few turns of thread around the case ahead of the rim can make sure the head is hard up against the bolt face, and the stretching is taking place where it ought to.

[Harter66]

30 Rem at $11/20
http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/30remington.html
32 Rem at $34/20
http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/qc108.html

They also list 30-30 basic .

[EDG]

These posts are about getting brass to get an otherwise unshootable gun to shoot. Sometimes we are using a less than ideal expedient case.
Suggesting .375 brass is nearly a worthless idea since they go for about $3.00 apiece now - which means supply is so poor that they are not worth looking for.
Some shooters have taken to using both .38-55 and .30-30 brass in .375 Win rifles. Considering that most of us shoot low pressure lead bullet loads each person can monitor any brass he has made for failure or excess expansion.

So you can, but this reminds me of something that came up a while back, in a post about forming .255 Winchester. In the database of my Load From a Disk program the thickness of brass near the head is given as .029in., .30-30 as .024in. and .38-55 as .019in.I don't know the source of that information, and it doesn't necessarily cover all brands and all times, of course. But I would feel happier about doing what you suggest with .375 Winchester, at .228in., which is virtually a modernised version of the .38-55.

A lot has been said about dangers in fireforming with cream of wheat - and called alarmist by some. In moderate pressures with bulleted loads, I think it is part-way alarmist. But in pure case processing with no bullet, I think it is harmless. After all you want is to get brass-expanding pressure with the minimum of powder that will achieve it, and there is a big gap between forming brass and deforming steel.

I wouldn't, however, use anything hard and granular, and rice is the classic example. One of my favourite books on shotgun and smoothbore slug technology is General Journée's "Tir des fusils de chasse", which is surprisingly relevant today, for a man who commanded a division in 1914. It has never been translated or properly reprinted, but describes testing with unusual wadding materials. Rice (and to know why anybody ever thought of that would be a fine thing) produced strangely high pressures, even without a bottlenecked case.

[EDG]

You might not do it but I do it with almost all cases I form - while shooting bullets. I don't use thread ahead of the rim either.
I form the cases to be a good fit in the chamber and I shoot them with a very thin oil film.

That is a good idea as long as the pressure is moderate. I wouldn't do it for fireforming while actually shooting bullets. With a rimmed case a few turns of thread around the case ahead of the rim can make sure the head is hard up against the bolt face, and the stretching is taking place where it ought to.

[Harter66]

38-55 2.125" Starline
http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/slb146.html
$12/20

They don't list 375 Win but $0.67 ea is a long way from $3 .

[EDG]

That is correct. .375 Win cases are almost impossible to buy at any price.
For the high pressure .375 loads some people insist on real .375 cases.

38-55 2.125" Starline
http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/slb146.html
$12/20

They don't list 375 Win but $0.67 ea is a long way from $3 .