When to anneal?

[allen16323]

I was wondering when should I anneal my cases? I am resizing case and stretching the neck up, these are once fired brass so I was thinking they should be fine to up size and then anneal after the first firing after that. Help is greatly appreciated and thanks in advance.

[Bent Ramrod]

Kind of depends on the case. High intensity rifle cases, full-length sized every reloading--maybe once a year. Low intensity pistol and rifle cases--maybe once or never. Neck sized only cases, maybe once. Common cases I can find as range pickups or buy cheap from somebody who has already picked them up--never. Obsolete cases that cost a buck or two apiece--maybe once every six months. Cases that I have formed or made myself--once before forming and maybe once afterwards, depending. Cases used for paper patch boolits I anneal every loading. Don't know if this is necessary but so much effort goes into loading them anyway, and most of the major league shooters do it, and many of the cases are in the two-buck-a-case category anyway, so I haven't tried not doing it.

You might do it more or less often depending on your gun, your loadings and the attrition rate you see.

[Maven]

I've tried annealing brass before and after I reform it, but experience has taught me to do so only after I reform it. Moreover, it is my practice to anneal any and all rifle brass that's more than 20 yrs. old so as to avoid split necks or at least to reduce the odds of it occurring.

[warpspeed]

Anneal first - then resize.

The reason for annealing in the first place is to "soften" the metal. sizing & firing work hardens the brass and you want it to be soft to form and move. You also want it to be consistent so it all moves and forms the same.

And, in general, I only do it to keep the neck tension consistent.

How/why exactly are you stretching the neck up ?

[Chris C]

I'm forever messing up my record keeping, but I try to anneal every 5th reloading of a given group of brass. So I'm sure sometimes its every 4 or every 6 times. (hate gettin' old an' forgetful)

[runfiverun]

if you do it before reforming you'll probably buckle the shoulder.
I'd do the work then anneal.

[Butler Ford]

Anytime I buy someone's "once fired" brass.
BF

[6bg6ga]

So, what about 300 blackout brass?

[Eutectic]

I've tried annealing brass before and after I reform it, but experience has taught me to do so only after I reform it. Moreover, it is my practice to anneal any and all rifle brass that's more than 20 yrs. old so as to avoid split necks or at least to reduce the odds of it occurring.

Maven is correct. What is forgotten or even unknown in case forming is that the brass neck and shoulder areas not only expand out or neck down but can also compress longitudinally. Softening brass first aggravates this! Then you get things like 'donuts' in the case neck and/or shorter cases. Anneal just before the final sizing to finish shoulder placement by just a few thousandths. The fireforming should then barely change case dimensions.

Eutectic

[GRUMPA]

Annealing in itself has its merits. The thing that seems to throw folks off is when and the intensity of the annealing process, there is a difference.

As a rule I'll anneal very last on all of the conversions I do. I have brought this up many times in the past, "I want the weaker case to fail" whenever I do a conversion. Many times when converting, and the case is annealed first, the brass wants to buckle, and....if the case is weaker than the rest you'll never know it.

For my own use: rifle (Bottle necked) cases get annealed after I size and clean them, I've always done that. Then about the 4-5 firing I'll anneal them again and just continue on.

Some brass just wont need to be annealed, the determining factor is the chamber itself, along with whatever sizing die you may be using. Some sizing dies really squeeze the neck and then the expander will open the neck. It's that expansion and contraction of the neck area that will work harden the neck, which is what I call the weak link.

If I haven't done over half a million 300BO cases I would be surprised, and about 90-95% of those get annealed. On those in particular......figure about 10-12 loadings with mild loads and 6-7 loadings with hyper-speeds before the primer pocket just gives out.

Annealing: using a machine works great, it can be regulated rather easily. Other methods do in fact work, but then there's the dreaded "Variables" that rear its ugly head. If a person anneals on a sunny day and tries to visually determine the annealing process by color and then does the same thing in a poorly lit area, the visual part of it changes. That's why I like using a machine, takes a lot of the guess work out of the process.

[allen16323]

Anneal first - then resize.

The reason for annealing in the first place is to "soften" the metal. sizing & firing work hardens the brass and you want it to be soft to form and move. You also want it to be consistent so it all moves and forms the same.

And, in general, I only do it to keep the neck tension consistent.

How/why exactly are you stretching the neck up ?

I am reforming 5.56 brass into 6mm/223 I have literally 2 7.5 gallon buckets of once fire lake city brass that I want to convert some of it. I came across an outstanding deal on a barrel and have a few ar15 lowers laying on the project bench so I am off the the races.

Thanks for all the info on this, with it being newer production LC I will anneal it after sizing. I can also confirm it is all once fired they are pickups from the machine gun range I do work at.

Allen

[superc]

I anneal before I fireform.

[Eddie2002]

Any military once fired brass gets annealed before resizing as does any range pickups. After that I'll shoot 4 or 5 full power loads before annealing a second time. Low powered plinkers get annealed every 10 or 12 reloads. It's the action of the dies on the neck that work the brass as well as shooting that make the case brittle.
A lot depends on how the brass feels while resizing it, if the neck feels tight going into the die it might be time for an annealing.

[warpspeed]

I am reforming 5.56 brass into 6mm/223 I have literally 2 7.5 gallon buckets of once fire lake city brass that I want to convert some of it. I came across an outstanding deal on a barrel and have a few ar15 lowers laying on the project bench so I am off the the races.

Thanks for all the info on this, with it being newer production LC I will anneal it after sizing. I can also confirm it is all once fired they are pickups from the machine gun range I do work at.

Allen

All that does is expand the neck to 6mm, right ? In that case, I don't think it makes much difference whether you anneal before or after.

I think there are advantages to both but probably more in doing it after, at least the first time.

[EDG]

If you are doing heavy sizing you can collapse the shoulder unless the forming steps are very small say like .020 per step. I prefer to omit annealing first unless the reductions can be many and very small. I got some "once fired" Norma 6.5 Jap brass that was so soft it collapsed just FL sizing it. So I had to go to an intermediate die just to get that brass FL sized.
Once fired a few times it worked hardened enough to FL size with the normal process.

If you anneal first you will need to anneal it after you get through too.

[fast ronnie]

I make 308 norma mag brass from 300 win mag brass, and have found that if I don't anneal first, I will lose 1/3 to 1/2 my cases. If I anneal first, I usually don't lose any. I have found the same when making 7 and 8 mm mauser from 30-06. I don't know if it's proper, but that's been my experience. They also should be done after forming too, as they work-harden during the re-sizing. (I'm in the process of building a machine now to do them automatically)

[Eutectic]

If you are doing heavy sizing you can collapse the shoulder unless the forming steps are very small say like .020 per step. I prefer to omit annealing first unless the reductions can be many and very small.

If you anneal first you will need to anneal it after you get through too.

One can learn a lot by looking at reforming die sets like RCBS or Redding makes....... Necking down and pushing a new shoulder back cannot be done in one step with the full length die of the caliber you want! You may get something that looks OK cosmetically..... But accuracy and shot to shot consistency need more than good looks. Annealing first aggravates this condition no matter how slow you go. This is a 'feel good' process to the reformer but your brass listens to longitudinal stress not cosmetics!
Heavy reforming that pushes the shoulder back as well as reducing the caliber needs addition dies in the process to first reduce the shoulder and form it back to almost finished position in steps and your full length die as a last former. Anneal and finish the last few thousandths. You get benchrest quality this way.

Reforming cases is quite labor intensive..... Why not strive for quality instead of junk that just looks OK?

Eutectic

[CWME]

I make 6BRX cases out of HXP 30-06. If I don't anneal first I would never get things to move. I cut off a .308Win FL size die to push the shoulder back to where the 6BRX shoulder is. From there it goes into an un modified 270 die to start squeezing the neck down. Next it goes into an un modified 243 die to get the neck to 6mm. A Redding 6mmBR trim die pushes the 6mm neck back to the 308 shoulder. A 6mmBR FL die set out for the BRX length FL sizes the case without an expander stem. The neck is then reamed to .24 and run into a 6BRX FL size die with an expander ball. The neck is then turned to fit the chamber. A second annealing is done after forming.

[atr]

depends on the brass, but in general I find I anneal after the 7th reloading/resizing.
Yes to annealing any range pickups.
Contrary to some of the recommendations here, I anneal before I re-size.
I can also tell when the brass is working hard during the resizing...you can feel it as you run the brass through the die, and thats a good indicator that the brass might need annealing