How many go to church? A few pointed questions for you.

[Traffer]

I was raised Catholic. I quit the Catholic church when a nun tried to humiliate me while on summer vacation going from 8th grade to freshman in high school. Spent nearly 20 years getting drunk and being generally worthless. Got to a point in life where I tried to straighten out my life. That is when everything started going wrong. Ended up sitting there asking God what he was doing to me. I reminded him that I was trying to change and pretty much just yelling at God for picking on me. I thought to myself "how is he going to answer me?" I turned on the TV (had just gotten Cable) and a man was standing there holding a Bible saying, "ladies and gentlemen, this is the word of God" I thought, "Gee, I always believed the Bible was true but never read it." So I got a Bible out of the closet and started reading. I started in Romans because I thought it sounded noble. By the end of chapter one I was on my high horse saying, "yeah, those dirty homosexuals, fornicators, liars etc..." Then I read verse one and two of Chapter two. "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things". I was concvicted to the point of shock. I looked up and "saw" heaven and the angels standing above me as if, "Ok you are caught". I jumped down to my knees and started praying. The thing that sticks in my mind that I prayed is this," Ok God, you got me. I don't know what to do now but I am going to spend the rest of my life reading the scriptures trying to do your will." Then I joined a fundamentalist Church. Unknown to me I started practicing legalism. I spent 20 years there learning that much was missing from my faith. I had been challenging the Church leaders about missing out on the Holy Spirit. Some 15 years has passed since I left that Church. Now my faith is more complete. I enjoy living in God's Grace and realize that His Holy Spirit is at work in the Church. I am a very happy man. Living to Gods Glory is a wonderful thing. So, yes I go to Church regularly and read the Bible and Pray regularly. It is part of my relationship with God.

[johnson1942]

your story is very very interesting, if their is more, please continue.

[UKShootist]

Early on in my membership of this board I was rightly taken to task over a comment I made. The reason I say 'rightly' was that I didn't notice that the title of this particular section is "Our Chapel". I will not, I hope, succumb to the temptation to enter into religious debate in the chapel of the faithful unless specifically invited to do so, whatever the faith. I do enjoy discussion on the subject, the livelier the better, but I would not go into a church, temple or mosque and start an argument there that the faithful are misguided.

I would say that given the faith and knowledge of many board members here that a separate section for open religious debate would be an interesting forum indeed, if perhaps somewhat bloody.

[Boaz]

Early on in my membership of this board I was rightly taken to task over a comment I made. The reason I say 'rightly' was that I didn't notice that the title of this particular section is "Our Chapel". I will not, I hope, succumb to the temptation to enter into religious debate in the chapel of the faithful unless specifically invited to do so, whatever the faith. I do enjoy discussion on the subject, the livelier the better, but I would not go into a church, temple or mosque and start an argument there that the faithful are misguided.

I would say that given the faith and knowledge of many board members here that a separate section for open religious debate would be an interesting forum indeed, if perhaps somewhat bloody.

It already exists at the bottom of the main board . The pit , there are many 'debates' there .

[UKShootist]

It already exists at the bottom of the main board . The pit , there are many 'debates' there .

I don't seem to be able to find anything listed as 'The Pit'. sounds interesting though.

[richhodg66]

I try to make it every Sunday and miss it when I don't. Ours is a very small church and has pretty relaxed services. It's a lot like the Southern Baptist Churches I used to attend, just doesn't seem to be as much bickering. Very much a neighborhood church.

I am far, far from being an exemplary Christian. I do have strong beliefs, tithe very regularly and try to do right most of the time. Seems I'm quick to anger, often judgemental and a big part of me is I worry too much about a lot of things which is a real indicator of weak faith, but on all three of these points, I'm a lot better than I used to be. Not sure how much of that is my faith or just plain getting older, probably a function of both.

God's still working on me. I often think I must be the most frustrating child He has.

[pmer]

Nice testimony Traffer.

I was raised going to a Lutheran church and was a weekend believer. I never really put 2 and 2 together till it went ELCA and some years of struggle on my part. The church isn't the place you drive to and worship, it's the group people that gather there. And if you read the Bible you can tell pretty quick if that church is adding or subtracting from God's word.

The OP's question is from a Catholic background and I don't have much to say about Catholic tradition. I go to a Evangelical Free Church and its been one of the best things that has happened to me. I owe much to the pastor from his phrase "dusty bibles lead to dirty lives". I didn't ask Jesus to come into my life till I was in my late 40's and it has been wonderful for me and my family. Going to church is being with others that are trying to be Christ like in their thoughts and actions, helping each other through times when we fall and celebrating victories over the evil one.

Don't be alone with he who is in the world because of a bad religious experience. It's a win for the wrong team!

[jmort]

I have been to most every brand of church, Roman Catholic, non-denominational, Reformed, Full Gospel, etc.. Benefited from all of them. Right now attending a non-denominational church. I don't attend church to prosper, but my life seems to go so much better when I get out the door on Sunday to fellowship with other Christians. Also great to have Christian friends to keep on the narrow path. It is true, "Iron Sharpens Iron."

[Blackwater]

Traffer, your story, I think, is rather typical of many of us. Isn't it funny how no matter who we are or what kind of background we come from, the road to real satisfaction in life always ends in belief? And that it's really a gradual process, often over many years, that brings what we initially sense to fruition? Maybe that's why we were advised to "study to show thyself approved?"

So many, many today are so wrapped up in the cares of everyday life and their "wants," that they let these things push out any time for the Bible and righteous thought. And in the process, they simply deny their own selves all the satisfactions and complacency that comes with real, deep belief and a deeper understanding of just exactly who and what we are, where we stand in relation to God, and how to go about honoring that which rightfully should be honored in our lives.

I've never seen an atheist that was really happy at a significantly deep level, have you? There's a reason for that. They may be "satisfied" at a very basic, elemental, existential level, or at least say they are. But I've never seen one whose happiness and satisfaction in life could ever match that of a real, studied and believing Christian. It's really an amazing difference, and it's so consistent that it simply can't be missed, even by a moderately educated redneck down in the swamps of Georgia.

None of us is perfect, or even knows or understands the Bible enough to stand in judgment over others. But let's remember that "judgment" is the condemning of the person. One CAN make assessments of what folks SAY, and still be righteous, and argue tooth and nail over matters. The disciples argued among themselves regularly. Why shouldn't we? They had Christ to settle all matters. We only have his Word, and that requires study to interpret. Doesn't that kind'a indicate that we're to spend our time searching for the real answers, instead of condemning each other?

We all come to faith from some different angle, just as Traffer's post clearly shows, but there are many commonalities in all of these ways, chief among which, I think, is the simple fact that it's going from being lost to being saved for us all. All else is really moot, in the end, really. And the story of the Prodigal Son shows clearly that we're to rejoice when any sinner comes to light, just as the father in the parable was so overjoyed when his wastrel son came home, and though the son asked to be a simple servant because he deserved no better, if even that, the father held a great feast in honor of his return, as beaten, dirty and bedraggled as the son had become. There's a lot of wisdom and insight and real, true justice in that story.

And anyone who thinks it's not a good thing to attend church, just needs to NOT attend for a while, to see the real difference for themselves. If they're existential and worldly in their views, they may not notice much difference, but if they're really true believers, there'll be something indistinct and perhaps undefinable missing. Church is the place we go to to celebrate and enjoy our faith with others, and pay our due diligence to God. And once in a while, we get a new insight from the preacher or someone in the church, or Sunday School, or something that happens there that we can think about, and glean some real insight into our own selves, and our families and friends, and the world in general around us.

I really miss not being able to get there more often than I do. Great folks there, even if we all ARE sinners, and imperfect while we're here on this plane. And just being among good folks helps make us better, too. As with kids, more is "caught than taught," and that ain't no small thing.

[dtknowles]

I don't seem to be able to find anything listed as 'The Pit'. sounds interesting though.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/foru...us-Discussions

Tim

[UKShootist]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/foru...us-Discussions

Tim

Thanks for that. I tried the link and it looks like I'm not allowed for some reason.

[Pine Baron]

Thanks for that. I tried the link and it looks like I'm not allowed for some reason.

6 months and 100 posts before access is allowed.

[dtknowles]

Thanks for that. I tried the link and it looks like I'm not allowed for some reason.

Too new of a member, need more time and maybe more posts.

Tim

[bangerjim]

Just hang around and post. You must meet the rules to get into the PIT............if your really want to!!!!!!!!!

A good place to go...........to get banned!

[jmort]

If you have been a member long enough, you know, that bickering on the non-Pit sub-forums is the cause of the majority of the bans. Only one person was disappeared of late from posting in The Pit. Arguing about ballistics really tore a hole in the membership.

[Blackwater]

UK, FWIW, I'm the one who pretty well "took you to task" over your initial post here, because I misinterpreted your reasons for posting here. When you helped me understand, I saw my error. Just wanted you to know that if you ever have any questions, please feel free to post them here. Just don't be surprised if you get differing answers, though, from different folks here. That's pretty well standard among us Christians, simply because the words of the Bible require some interpretation, and of course, no two of us interpret it quite exactly the same. So don't expect final answers, but more of opinions and insights as answers.

Will Rogers used to say, "I'm not a member of an organized political party, I'm a democrat." It's kind'a the same way with us Christians. We read and study (and sometimes just assume?) and conclude for ourselves, and even argue one concept over another, but the only truly definitive answers we'll get will be after we've left this world and gone to the next. And it IS there.

So don't expect simple, pat answers if you have questions, but merely "input" that you can sort out for yourself, and decide what you believe it all means. And Christianity isn't a destination so much as it is a walk towards something, wherein we all sometimes change directions when we realize we've gone off course. It's like navigating a ship on troubled seas. Some course corrections are always inevitable, simply because of the complexity of it all and our limited ability to perceive all that's in our instruction book - the Bible.

It's not for the meek of heart, or those demanding pat answers, but it's worth every effort and minute we spend in its pursuit and continuing development. When you really think about it, how could it be any other way, really? We may WANT pat answers, of course, but if my dog tried to "understand" me, he'd have no real way to understand much of my motivations and considerations. It's the same way when we contemplate God, and His will and plans and purposes for us.

So the doors will never quite fully open until we leave this world and its limitations, but we CAN learn plenty, if we are diligent and honest and earnest in the effort, and very fortunately, Christ doesn't require that we be perfect. Boy! Is THAT ever a realief! Hope this helps. Only thing we don't want here is the kind of contentious and sometimes inane exchanges like are typical in the pit ("political & religious" section). But honest questions are always welcome. That's what Chapels are for, often, or at least one of the reasons.

Anyone seeking answers will always be welcome here, and you certainly seem to be a man of impeccable manners, so I don't think anyone would resent your questions or presence here just because you don't believe .... yet. But nobody's appointed me ruler of this Chapel, so take anything I say as simply coming from just another member here on the forum, and not as anything definitive. Your manners alone should gain you our respect in and of themselves, and your seeming genuine good will.

It's a shame people don't talk to folks like you more these days, but PC philosophy/theology has infected even the most stalwart, and pretty effectively stifles most talk about matters concerning religion and its propagation of its tenets and concepts. So never feel out of place whenever you have honest questions. That's something we're instructed to respond to for any who are really seeking answers. And we do our best. Just don't expect perfection. Just good, honest answers about what we've found "works" for us. Then you have to sort it out for yourself, and some will be more helpful than others. It's just how it's always worked, even among the apostles themselves.

[Preacher Jim]

six your question is a good one. none of us go enough, practice enough or make good excuses why we don't. the building is a place where the church(body of believers) meet the Bible is clear that we are not to forsake gathering together to worship and draw strenth from one another. We are the coming together at God's invitation to worship and when we make excuses we are saying God i don't need you today. just my oppinion

[Blackwater]

That's so true Jim. Just a few scant years ago, our church sanctuary burned down. Lit by a theif who broke in looking for stuff to pawn or sell to get drug money. To cover his tracks (at least in his mind), he lit it on fire, and it burned to the ground. It was an old building that had been bricked up. My grandfather helped a lot on building it after the original sanctuary burned some time around the nineteen teens, IIRC. It was originally established in 1855, but was never anything really, but a simple country church. But we all loved the place. Our preacher hadn't been there all that long, but had already come to love the place and the people and attitude there. He picked out some of the bricks from the ashes, and took one by one of our "old heads" of the church, and asked him if he wanted one. His answer? "Why? I've got plenty of bricks if I need 'em right out there." The preacher said, "But this one's from the church." Curtis said, "That building isn't the church. It's the people inside that make it a church." I love our preacher, and he's a really good pastor, but on this occasion, he pretty much got a lesson from one of the old heads of the church. And my friend Curtis was right. It IS the people that are the church.

Me? I confess, I STILL harbor resentments against the idjit druggie that burned down one of the last thing that I had that was an example of my grandad's handiwork. I guess I'm just a little TOO sentimental about things like that. But I keep working on it. Some things are hard, but hard doesn't mean impossible. When my son was young, he'd often say, "But Daddy, that's HARD!" Then, I'd just smile a wry, challenging smile, and say, "Awwwww. And you can only do EASY things????" He hated that, but now it's my turn to take some of my own advice. Very humbling!

[UKShootist]

Blackwater, you're from Georgia? I've been there. Visited Forsyth and Macon, spent some time with local officers. I particularly admired all the bullet holes in the road signs, especially the larger calibre ones!

Anyhow, you are clearly a Southern Gentleman and one to spend some time in discussion with. Reading this thread, I would like to say a couple of things. Firstly, you mention you have never met a happy atheist, well, you have at least corresponded with one, for that is me. At least, this will depend somewhat upon semantics, for I prefer to use the word 'contented' as I regard happiness as being what you experience as a change of state that happens when you experience a mood lift. This doesn't stop me being a grumpy old git sometimes, but from personal experience I don't think this stops Christians from being the same on occasions.

Life is good, for all the misery I have seen, both personal and professional. My earliest clear memory is when I was seven years old and I stood and watched my best friend fall into a canal and drown, his face inches under the water. In 2004 my life felt like it had stopped when my 20 year old son died as a result of a road traffic collision after being unconscious for 19 days in intensive care. Many disasters fell in between and after, and are not for sharing on a public forum, but in many ways I have been very lucky and, perhaps most importantly, I have been able to recognise that luck and enjoy life in my own way, enjoying the good, enduring the bad, and hoping I can tell the difference.

Now, I'm not going to say the other until such times as I reach the pit (on this forum, not the pit in case anyone is getting their hopes up!) because as I have said, I wouldn't walk into any chapel and start arguing with the faithful. I have, on a few occasions, given some evangelical types a bit of a hard, but polite, time. If they go knocking on doors to preach then they have to be prepared to face the music. But my debates are only ever intended to elicit further understanding of what people often call faith. My downfall is that I am too ready to respond in kind if someone should overstep what I consider to be the mark.

All the best, and as Dave Allen used to say "May your God go with you."

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Just wondering how many of you go to church. How many actually practice what you profess to believe in? How many are hypocrites? How many keep the commandments everyday? Is church actually necessary? Be careful here....

I just seen this thread for the first time and didn't take the time to read more than half the posts.
But I'd like to respond to the OP.

Myself, except for several months in 2009/2010(due to a girlfriend), I haven't been a regular member of a church since 1993. I do think I practice what I profess, although we(Christians) all fail...leading me to your next question, I believe all humans are fallible and sinful, So I'd expect that Christians would appear to be hypocrites to those with a different understanding.

Next, Hmmm keep the comandments? I try, but as I believe, it is impossible for us humans.

Lastly, Is Church going necessary? I can't answer that for everyone...I don't even know if I can answer that for myself? BUT, what I can say, is that when I was a regular member of the 'right' church, it sure makes being a Christian easier and better.

Years ago, when I was 20, and left my parents house and bought a house in a different town, I searched for a new church. I had been a Lutheran growing up, But I didn't 'take' to the Lutheran churches in my new town, but after visiting a small northern conservative Baptist church...I literally fell in love with the people there. I was accepted into a family, much like my family I was related to. I can't really explain it much more thoroughly than that. I have tons of stories how we helped people and how they helped me. I'm afraid they spoiled me for life, cuz I moved away 4 years later and have never been part of a church like that again.

The churches, in the area I now live in, that I did try to become a member at since then, never felt like that and I slowly drifted away. I have been in this area, where I live now, for over 20 years, and have given up looking for that group/congregation, to match that Baptist congregation I fell in love with.
That's 'why' I am not a regular member of a church...much to the chagrin of my best friend, who is a 'Elder' at one of the local Lutheran Churches.