Trail Boss paper patch 45-70

[gunner300]

Been playing with Trail Boss and my Browning 1885 high wall 45-70. Was looking for a light recoil load with around 1200 fps.
Bollits tried Lee 500gr.pointed, Lee 450 gr flat round nose. Just could not get the speed, accuracy, light recoil to come together.
I had some 452dia. 250gr SWC bollits soooo way not try Paper Patching (never done it before) after some research I got to paper patching. Tried computer paper wraped twice made boolit 461dia. with 16gr Trail Boss 1460 fps very little recoil.shot OK but the dia. was to large. I think I'm onto something here.
Next tried tracing paper two wraps made boolit 458 dia. (perfect) 16grs Trail Boss, light crimp, 1460 fps and with my old eyes and buckhorn sight 2inch group 50yds point of aim ,very low recoil .
I think I've got me a good woodchuck round.
If you haven't tried Paper patching give it a try.
By the way no lube on boolit or patch shoots clean .
Just wanted to share thanks.

[Don McDowell]

Trail boss is smokeless powder, and about as miserable of choice for big bore cartridges as you can find, only about 3/4 of the velocity of black powder , non of the accuracy and pressures right at the saamispec maximum.
If you're serious about a blackpowder paper patched load for that rifle you'll be looking to bullets about 1.3 inches long, diameter from .442-.448 then wrapped in 8 or 9 lb tracing paper.

[Lumpy grits]

Listen to Don

LG

[semtav]

Been playing with Trail Boss and my Browning 1885 high wall 45-70. Was looking for a light recoil load with around 1200 fps.
Bollits tried Lee 500gr.pointed, Lee 450 gr flat round nose. Just could not get the speed, accuracy, light recoil to come together.
I had some 452dia. 250gr SWC bollits soooo way not try Paper Patching (never done it before) after some research I got to paper patching. Tried computer paper wraped twice made boolit 461dia. with 16gr Trail Boss 1460 fps very little recoil.shot OK but the dia. was to large. I think I'm onto something here.
Next tried tracing paper two wraps made boolit 458 dia. (perfect) 16grs Trail Boss, light crimp, 1460 fps and with my old eyes and buckhorn sight 2inch group 50yds point of aim ,very low recoil .
I think I've got me a good woodchuck round.
If you haven't tried Paper patching give it a try.
By the way no lube on boolit or patch shoots clean .
Just wanted to share thanks.

If its working for you, whos to knock it.
Go over to the Smokeless PP threads and they will probably give you a better reception.

[303Guy]

How is the patch disintegrating? Are you finding strips or fragments in front of the muzzle?

[gunner300]

confetti at the muzzle

[1989toddm]

Glad to hear you made it work! If it works, with no bad effects, awesome!


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[303Guy]

confetti at the muzzle

And apparent pressure? It sounds like you have hit a sweet spot. Don't change anything!

With the reduced recoil you will be able to practice a lot more.

[FredBuddy]

Yup, good 50 yard groundhog round. I use 200 gr semiwadcutters paperpatched or powdercoated. Don't like the idea of a 400 gr hunk o lead bouncing across the field. Haven't tried Trailboss yet, it's hard to find. Unique works.

[9.3X62AL]

The tone and delivery of Post #2 of this thread is why I spend about 10% of the time on the Cast Boolits site that I once did.

Of course, I don't have zillions of dollars tied up in arcane BPCR rifles, accoutrements, foofahrah, and elitism either--so my viewpoint might be skewed a bit.

I have used Trail Boss in a variety of calibers--both hyphenated WCF or Marlin chamberings and some straightwall revolver rounds. Is it "all that and a bag of chips?" Not really, but it has utility for mid-range loadings in a variety of calibers using cast bullets. Where it has very pleasantly surprised me is in 357 and 44 Magnum revolver loadings with "standard weight" SWCs--a 100% density loading in both calibers gives 950 FPS +/- 25 FPS and stellar accuracy. 100%-density in 44/40 WCF revolver has given about 850 FPS in a Uberti repro SAA x 4-3/4" with SAECO #446, and these shoot right where the sights look--as a couple jackrabbits learned to their permanent personal dismay recently. Crows and coyotes gotta eat, too.

Relative to the black powder comparison comments, most of the true black powders I have been limited to--primarily Goex Flaming Dirt over the years--are ALSO pale and weak caricatures of black powder's former potential as a propellant. Only a few BPs even now--125 years after BP was largely perfected as a propellant--can provide the true picture of the fuel's capability.

So, let's keep it real, shall we?

[1989toddm]

⬆️⬆️⬆️
Amen.


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[Chill Wills]

The tone and delivery of Post #2 of this thread is why I spend about 10% of the time on the Cast Boolits site that I once did.

Of course, I don't have zillions of dollars tied up in arcane BPCR rifles, accoutrements, foofahrah, and elitism either--so my viewpoint might be skewed a bit.

I have used Trail Boss in a variety of calibers--both hyphenated WCF or Marlin chamberings and some straightwall revolver rounds. Is it "all that and a bag of chips?" Not really, but it has utility for mid-range loadings in a variety of calibers using cast bullets. Where it has very pleasantly surprised me is in 357 and 44 Magnum revolver loadings with "standard weight" SWCs--a 100% density loading in both calibers gives 950 FPS +/- 25 FPS and stellar accuracy. 100%-density in 44/40 WCF revolver has given about 850 FPS in a Uberti repro SAA x 4-3/4" with SAECO #446, and these shoot right where the sights look--as a couple jackrabbits learned to their permanent personal dismay recently. Crows and coyotes gotta eat, too.

Relative to the black powder comparison comments, most of the true black powders I have been limited to--primarily Goex Flaming Dirt over the years--are ALSO pale and weak caricatures of black powder's former potential as a propellant. Only a few BPs even now--125 years after BP was largely perfected as a propellant--can provide the true picture of the fuel's capability.

So, let's keep it real, shall we?

Hello 9.3x62 AL,
I fully agree and will also point out that the more any of us think we know about a subject, the more humble and gently we should write when pushing our opinion. With out even trying we can sound much more harsh and uppity than our smiley faces and friendly vocal demeanor would be if the conversation were in person.

I am not a great writer all the time and I am sure I have rubbed people the wrong way too.

OK - so having said that, you may know (or not) that this thread started out in Black Powder Cartridge and was moved here. That is no reason to make anyone feel their question is unwelcome but that also might be a reason for the negative smokeless reply.

I love to shoot BP in Cartridge Rifles but I also enjoy shooting cast bullets with smokeless powders in some old BP guns.

The next item I will be on thin ice with but here goes. The man you referred to I have gotten to know the last few years and is a good example of how our on forum writing persona and real life persona can be so completely different. He is about the nicest, most generous person you could meet. That goes double for some of the other people I have become friends after reading their posts for years too. SO, It pains me, or at the least makes me cringe when the sparks fly. I am not sure we can get away from it tho.

I don't expect you to have a different opinion based on anything I write, but consider, us humans are a good bit more complicated than our often poor writing may have everyone think.

I hope this helps to some degree!
-Michael Rix

[9.3X62AL]

Michael--

Thank you very kindly for being far more understanding about human nature than my previous post in this thread may have been. There is some history on this site that helps prompt my responses of this sort, and that is as much as I care to say about that particular variable.

[M-Tecs]

Was looking for a light recoil load with around 1200 fps.
Bollits tried Lee 500gr.pointed, Lee 450 gr flat round nose. Just could not get the speed, accuracy, light recoil to come together.

Trail Boss works very well in some applications. This is not one of them. If your goal is 1200 fps with a 500 paper patch with smokeless powder you may need to look at different powders. I don't believe you can get there with trail boss.

http://www.reloadammo.com/4570load.htm

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handlo...door+Rifles%29

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...il-Boss-Powder

Trail boss is smokeless powder, and about as miserable of choice for big bore cartridges as you can find, only about 3/4 of the velocity of black powder , non of the accuracy and pressures right at the saamispec maximum.

In the 45/70 with heavy bullets that is reality. Don is correct with his assessment of Trail Boss for this application.