viability of air rifle pellets for casting

[Milsurpmaniac]

Hello all, I am obviously quite new at this so please forgive me if I sound like an idiot. I have been shooting and collecting air rifle pellets for about a year now, and I have used the same brand every time. I have recently purchased a Lee-Enfield no. 4 mk II and have had trouble here in Michigan finding ammunition, so I have decided to start casting my own .303 boolits. I would like to know if anyone has ever used pellets before, and also, should I be alloying it with something harder? I have already somewhat purified the lead, and I am in the process of fluxing it as well, however I do not want to cast until I know for a fact the lead is hard enough, as pellets use EXTREMELY soft lead so as to not damage the barrel of the air rifle. Also, and I apologize as this part is a bit off topic, but has anyone ever tried to "dip-coat" a copper jacket onto the lead? Thanks in advance for the help, and if I've left out any details that are necessary to determine an answer, please let me know. I am a sponge, soak me with knowledge(cue inappropriate comments?).

[RPRNY]

Do I understand that you intend to use air rifle pellets - to melt them down - as your source of lead?

That seems an expensive way of obtaining lead.

In any event, one presumes that pellets will be sub BHN 10. You will want to match your bullet hardness to the speed at which you intend to shoot them. For 303 cast in the 180 - 200 grs range, @ 22 grs 4227 will, for example put you in the 1600 - 1700 range. A BHN of 18 - 22 would be ideal for that.

"Dip coating" lead in copper would be a fiasco. The melting point of copper is 1,085 C. You would liquefy the lead core upon "dipping". If you found some other mechanism of applying copper (other than swaging and electroplating), it is extremely unlikely you would achieve anything like a uniform application, thus creating a bullet that is inherently unstable and inaccurate.

[Milsurpmaniac]

Sorry if I make this short, I'm on mobile so it's hard to respond. The pellets I'm using are ones ive already shot, so theyre unusable to me in their current state. what would you suggest I use as an alloy to harden the lead? I have an excess collection of used aluminum co2 tanks, would those be fine? How do I determine the ratio? Also, i thought about doing a dip that only lasts a few milliseconds, then oil quenching the now jacketed bullet in veggie oil. Thanks again.

[MT Chambers]

To your used pellets you can add wheelweights, tin esp. from solder or pewter, linotype for antimony. Pellets are close to being pure lead and would make good boolits for low vel. pistol rounds or BP boolits. I'm not sure what you plan to do with the aluminum tanks, they can't be melted and used in any way for alloying, some folks carefully cut them in half and use as a melting pot, but do some safety research on this.

[Outpost75]

Soft, pure lead bullets can be used for subsonic gallery loads using 4-5 grains of any fast burning pistol or shotgun powder you have around. A thin film of Lee Liquid Alox will do fine, don't try to fill the grooves, justa thin uniform coating so the bullets have a brassy color.

[HangFireW8]

I think the aluminum "tanks" he is talking about are the little seltzer bottle charger sized ones, about as big as a thumb.

As MT Chambers stated, it is not practical to alloy aluminum and lead.

Treat the pellets as pure lead. With some solder added 1 to 2% by weight, it would make good boolits for low pressure plinker loads. Use the forum search feature for "cats sneeze loads 303" for these.

For real rifle velocities, you'll have to find a harder alloy, and you can mix in a little of your pellet metal if it's too hard.

[Milsurpmaniac]

The intended use for these boolits will be mid power target loads for my .303 and 54r. As for the aluminum I was under the false impression that the lead could be alloyed with aluminum to make it stronger. I will have to consult a reloading chart for .303 to find a mid-range charge that would actually push the bullet all the way out of my Enfield.

[RogerDat]

Go to the swapping and selling forum. Buy some Wheel Weight lead, maybe some solder, tin, or pewter (little goes a long way). Some linotype would be nice, if no linotype is currently offered post that you want some in the Wanted To Buy section, someone will sell you some. You can go out and find these items locally but that effort while very satisfying would be an additional step to get through on the way to actually casting and loading for your 303. You can also purchase good bullet lead from Rotometals a site sponser with link at the top of the page, costs more than buying directly from members but will be foundry exact in its alloy content.

Go to the top of this Lead and Alloy forum and download the alloy calculator. This helps calculate the BHN (hardness) and final alloy percentages of mixing different lead alloys. Your soft pellets are good to cut the richer alloys but probably too soft on their own. Only way to know is make an ingot, and test the hardness. If no hardness tester read the sticky in this forum on using Art Pencils to hardness test. Art pencils have letter/number designations that indicate a consistent standard hardness of the pencil graphite, can be used to test lead. Read the sticky.

Use soft lead round fishing weight to slug your barrel. Something to look up. You do this to find the bore size so you can purchase a mold that cast a bullet of appropriate size to fit your barrel. Enfield rifles are known for having somewhat generous dimensions and vary a lot. My guess is you will need a .314 bullet but some barrels are tight enough that a .312 will shoot well. Or at least that is the rumor. Lee has this very inexpensive .312 mold at $20 http://www.titanreloading.com/molds/...ld-c312-185-1r- you will want a lube and size kit to apply that copper cap to the bottom of this bullet. A bottle of liquid alox bullet lube mentioned by Outpost75 comes with this sizer kit. http://www.titanreloading.com/lube-s...ing-sizing-kit Read up on Tumble Lube, or on how to use the Lee lube to make 45/45/10 lube.

You might post in the bullet swapping section and ask for a sample of bullets from a mold you are considering. Get a few and try them before buying a mold. You can also use a bullet cast at .312 or .314 out of plain soft lead to slug your barrel. You may need to buy a more expensive mold for the 303 than the Lee mold in order to get one that casts to the diameter your bore requires. That you will have to determine.

Last but not least read up on fire forming and neck sizing brass for the 303 British. Reloading them tends to lead to brass failure if some simple steps are not followed to keep from over working the brass.

P.S Copper jacketed bullets the lead core is stuffed under pressure (swaged is the term) into the copper shell. Some people use heavy presses to swage their lead into a bullet rather than casting the bullet. Or cast bar shapes and use the press to force them into a jacket and/or give them a bullet shape. Not my thing but looks interesting.

[Milsurpmaniac]

Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to explain all of that! I really appreciate all the help ive been getting here, Michigan is a loner state now so it's near impossible to find someone locally to talk to. I have already bought the .312 mold, having not known about slugging the bore when i bought it. I cast a few of those today with just the soft lead pellets, so I will try to use that to slug it. As for setup, do I need to buy a melting pot? Currently doing it over red hot coals after an open fire. I'm working off a 23 year old's income and knowledge level, so buying is a dead last resort. I will go to a local scrapyard to find some wheel weights, and I'll have to look around for some other parts and pieces as well. If all goes as planned, I'll be shipping out for the army in the next few months, so as of now I'm just trying to collect the necessary materials to get me started when i get back home. As for copper jacketing, I've pretty much given up on that. I don't work well with electricity so electroplating is probably not wise, and i don't even own a reloading press yet so anything further than casting is a no go till i come back from my tour. Again thank you SO sincerely much for the awesomely detailed reply, I've already saved it in a note for the future.

[richhodg66]

I coach a JROTC air rifle team and have amassed a couple of coffee cans full of spent pellets. The stuff is pure lead and way too soft for most casting. Like has been said, 50/50 wheel weights to pure is a good alloy for plinking and target loads and even for deer hunting if you clean fairly often (1800+ FPS).

Try to find something with some antimony in it, wheel weights or better, linotype, to mix with it.

I've never done it, but a lot of guys on here powder coat bullets and say it really does make bullet hardness a lot less critical, might be worth looking into.

[RogerDat]

Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to explain all of that! I really appreciate all the help ive been getting here, Michigan is a loner state now so it's near impossible to find someone locally to talk to. I have already bought the .312 mold, having not known about slugging the bore when i bought it. I cast a few of those today with just the soft lead pellets, so I will try to use that to slug it. As for setup, do I need to buy a melting pot? Currently doing it over red hot coals after an open fire. I'm working off a 23 year old's income and knowledge level, so buying is a dead last resort. I will go to a local scrapyard to find some wheel weights, and I'll have to look around for some other parts and pieces as well. If all goes as planned, I'll be shipping out for the army in the next few months, so as of now I'm just trying to collect the necessary materials to get me started when i get back home. As for copper jacketing, I've pretty much given up on that. I don't work well with electricity so electroplating is probably not wise, and i don't even own a reloading press yet so anything further than casting is a no go till i come back from my tour. Again thank you SO sincerely much for the awesomely detailed reply, I've already saved it in a note for the future.

Don't know what part of Mich. you are in (go ahead point at your hand, I won't laugh...) several of us down in the middle part around Lansing have met up for lunch or breakfast, take in a gun show or visit a range as a guest of one of the members.

One thing you might find interesting is Powder Coating or PC. Using a Cool Whip container (or other #5 plastic bowl with tight lid) and BLACK airsoft BB's to shake bullets and powder coat paint together. The paint and bullet get a static charge from the shaking with the plastic BB's, powder sticks, then you bake them in a counter top oven (look at Salvation Army or thrift shops for a cheap one). Powder coat paint properly baked is really hard and simply won't come off the bullet. Not exactly a copper jacketed round BUT.... it does let you push softer lead at higher rifle velocities without fouling the barrel with lead. Just tried some in an 8 mm Mauser. Probably hit around 1,700 fps with no leading. Lubes and protects all in one. Harbor Freight has a red powder coat paint that will work for cheap, the other colors they sell don't work well for "shake-n-bake" application using ASBB (air soft BB). Look in the alternative coatings forum, lot of information there. There is a member here Smoke4320 that sells lots of pretty colors of powder that do work with ASBB if you decide you like PC and it works for you his stuff is better quality and he tests that they work with the ASBB method. I make Green and White 44 magnum ones for step-son that is a die hard U of M fan.

Garage sale season is coming. The best thing for big batch smelting of WW's or scrap lead is those propane turkey fryers. Cheap bread loaf or muffin tin pans make good ingot molds for cheap. Always test one cup in the pan or a little melted lead in the bread loaf pan to make sure it dumps out ok once cooled. I once filled a muffin tin and every muffin of lead stuck. 25# of lead stuck in the pan. Now I test with 1/4 filled one and make sure it dumps. Garage sale or salvation army can yield steel ladle to use to scoop out lead to pour for ingots. Just bend the handle to get bowl at 90 degrees. Watch for pewter too. There is a thread on identifying pewter that is worth a read. Pewter is at least 89% tin and often even higher percentage. Sometimes old rolls of solder in garage sales go for a few cents, solder generally contains tin. Which helps lead fill out mold better. Cast iron pots can also be had at good prices, or stainless steel. Avoid aluminum pots, they lose a lot of strength at the temps lead melts at, combined with the weight of the lead in the pot pushing down it can make the bottom of pot blow out and spill molten lead all over, feet never like molten lead.

Charcoal, fire, or hotplate burner from garage sale will all melt lead. For casting bullets the electric hot plate will be easier to use and control the temperature. Might want a decent casting ladle http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-2867790-...ct_top?ie=UTF8 and will probably want a thermometer that can measure molten lead temperatures. This one works and is inexpensive http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00..._hps_bw_g86_i4

One of the actual lead melters sold by Lee, Lyman, or RCBS are by far the best option but you can certainly cast from any solid pot on enough heat to keep the lead alloy molten. I did many thousands over a propane turkey fryer burner before I decided to spend the money on an electric. Part of that is my back gets sore standing at a pot for very long, electric pot being much lower allowed me to sit down. I will say it does make the ladle casting easier. This is an item you might post in wanted to buy when you get around to purchasing one. Might find a member who will give you a good deal on a used one.

[HangFireW8]

At the OP's income level, I would strongly recommend pan lubing, Lee liquid Alox, or just finger lubing. All work well and require only a trivial investment.

[richhodg66]

I'm not trying to be condescending here, I'm truly not. You are politely asking interesting questions and that's great, but I have to ask if you have ever reloaded ammunition for anything before? My advice would be to learn that part of it before taking up making your own bullets, you could buy an awful lot of commercial cast .32 pistol bullets that would work fine for plinking loads in the .303 for what all the stuff to cast your own bullets would cost and could learn the process of handloading ammo, then jump into casting later, so save your lead pellets until then.

Loading ammo is not rocket science and there's no voo doo involved like some (even experienced shooters) think, but you do have to learn a bit and it helps to read up a lot and have a mentor around while you do it.

[runfiverun]

y'all are making this hard.
go to roto-metals and buy some superhard and mix it with your pellets.
consider the pellets pure lead.
we have an alloy calculator here[Bumpo's] use it and shoot for a bhn of about 12.[or look for one of his posts and use the link in his sig-line]
get the LEE 20 dollar mold.
and a way to melt some lead.
a LEE sizer in about 314 will come with some alox.

your gonna need a reloading press and some assorted tools before you get this whole thing going you might as well incorporate them into your casting.

[HangFireW8]

y'all are making this hard.

Not all of us.

[Mr_yeti]

Depending on your place in the mitten, I could probably help you out. I live in macomb county. I reload 303 with cast and shoot hundreds of them. couple different enfield configurations, 12.4 gr unique seems to work really well for me with 180gr boolits

[Milsurpmaniac]

I am in Clinton Township, near 16 mile road between Gratiot and Garfield. Don't know if I can post phone numbers here so I'll refrain for now, if there is another method of contact you would prefer, please let me know.

[DerekP Houston]

I am in Clinton Township, near 16 mile road between Gratiot and Garfield. Don't know if I can post phone numbers here so I'll refrain for now, if there is another method of contact you would prefer, please let me know.

Best method is via "private message " keeps it semi private at least. Click on his username and from the drop down there will be an option .

[Milsurpmaniac]

Thank you sir, wouldve probably necer figured that out lol. So hard to navigate on mobile.

[Chris24]

Definitely learn how to reload before you try casting. It was years before I finally poured my own. Before that, I bought premade boolits and mastered my loads with them.