Awful accuracy- is this excess leading?

[BCB]

Since the fouling in the bore appears to be copper colored (maybe the light source is giving a false appearance?) and it is after you shot 3 jacketed bullets, I guess we can assume it is copper…

Many years ago when I was first getting into shooting Contenders I discovered an interesting problem…

So here goes and this may have nothing at all to do with your leading/copper fouling problem…

I was only shooting jacketed bullets back then and when I would fire the 1^st dozen or so groups from the 223 Remington, 7-30 Waters, and 30-30 Winchester Super 14” barrels, accuracy was very good…

Then, once I got really attempting to fine-tune some of the very promising reloads, accuracy would go to bottom levels and I mean absolutely absurd—at least to my standards. Definitely not as good as the initial performances…

I noticed the barrels were copper fouling to the point they almost looked orange like your picture especially at the muzzle end. I do know that part of it was some type of sheen from the powder. This I learned from articles in Handloader and others…

My combination of powders and bullets were always a ball powder as I was mostly shooting surplus then and Hornady bullets. (Let’s get one thing clean now—I am absolutely not BASHING Hornady as I use their bullets in the 3 previously mentioned cartridges when I am hunting groundhogs or deer in some instances)…

I found that by brutally cleaning the barrel with Sweets and J&B until the brush was nearly worn out after about every dozen rounds fired, I began to bring accuracy back. It took several boxes of 100 bullets to make the improvements appear. It was an expensive aspect back then as money was somewhat limited…

I did, and still do sometimes, used a steel brush. Many have opinions on these critters; I have had no problems…

I think that some new barrels, depending on manufacturer are rougher than others. T/C's barrels at that time were dreadful—again, my opinion…

Regardless, after much effort and cleaning until I was literally ready to throw the barrel in the garbage can, they eventually began to shoot acceptable…

On a side note, I seem to be having a similar problem with an Encore 308 Winchester barrel. But, it is beginning to appear, this problem is not going to be solved, at least by shooting and cleaning and shooting and cleaning and shooting and cleaning and shooting and cleaning etc.—you get the picture…

These types of problems can sure be discouraging and quite costly…

Good-luck…BCB

[243winxb]

Looking at load data (460 S&W Mag) , i dont see 55,000 psi working with lead? The Trail Boss data for the 325 gr PLAIN BASE at lower PSI / velocity may? BUT WILL THE BULLET MAKE IT OUT THE END OF THE BARREL AT SUCH LOW VELOCITY? http://www.reloadammo.com/460sw.htm Changing the title to " 45 Raptor " may get more experenced reloaders help?

[w30wcf]

At 2,200 fps a bullet should be wearing a gas check to get any decent accuracy and prevent leading.
In a straight walled case, a .06" poly disc under a plain based bullet will work almost as well.


w30wcf

[243winxb]

The lead are from the Saeco 300 gr .452 dia mold, gas checked with LBT blue soft & I'm using an alloy with just a touch of copper (.6%, got the idea from the lead alloys sub-forum), pushed to 2200 fps & sized at .452" (barrel slugged at .451").

Quote from OP. Post #1 Need to know what powder is used. Factory brass or 30-06 reworked? Are the boolits home cast? What Saeco bullet, this one? What alloy was used? http://www.redding-reloading.com/dow...6pageflyer.pdf Attachment 168692

[Walter Laich]

I've had great luck using Kroil oil to remove leading. run a wet patch through, give it overnight and clean. I ended up having to do it twice but leading was removed. Waiting was the hard part for me

[Fraxinus]

Quote from OP. Post #1 Need to know what powder is used. Factory brass or 30-06 reworked? Are the boolits home cast? What Saeco bullet, this one? What alloy was used? http://www.redding-reloading.com/dow...6pageflyer.pdf Attachment 168692

H110 powder in unfired factory brass. Yes, that is the bullet. Hornady .45 cal gas checks. Alloy is roughly 6% tin, 5% antimony, .6% copper, probably a touch of arsenic as the base was COWW before I sweetened it with foundrytype. Foundry-type that was XFR'd and happened to have Cu provides the copper. In the Cu alloy thread in the lead alloy subforum, some members were having good luck when tin%= antimony% + copper%. Happy to take advice on alloy if anyone sees a problem. Home cast.

Walter Laich- Thanks for the Kroil suggestion, I'll try that tonight. No kroil at home but I can borrow some from work.

BCB- Good info to have... the color of the barrel is definitely influenced by the lighting. I'll try to take more in natural light tonight & see if any come out. I've cleaned this barrel recently with a copper solvent, & no blue color-I assumed I was good in the copper fouling department. Regardless, I hear what you're saying- I need to try a few cycles of cleaning & only shooting jacketed & see if anything changes.

EDIT- to 243Win, load data comes from the Lyman manual as well as Hodgdon's manual.

[WILCO]

I'd appreciate some insight, I'm trying to trouble shoot awful accuracy in a rifle.

Sounds like a lot going on. Best advice I can give is to stop and go back to square one.
Starting with a scrubbed barrel and a thorough rifle once over is key. Decide what you're going to work with. Full metal jacket or cast. I'd never try to do both at once. Also, I wouldn't use FMJ as a base for accuracy with lead. Two different worlds. Good luck.

[243winxb]

XFR'd -Meaning? Has any oven heat treating/ water quenching been done to your home cast boolits? Should make them harder. I see one site lists a 21 BHN. https://www.grizzlycartridge.com/ Another has 22 BHN with 31,284 PSI to "obturate " https://www.beartoothbullets.com/faq/index.htm I think the amount of antimony your using, would make boolits harder then 21 bhr, after heat treating? This would be good for the high PSI loads. I tried the Lyman method.

: Is there anything I can do to make the bullets harder?
A: Cast bullets can be heat treated to increase their hardness providing your alloy has some antimony present. To heat treat your bullets: Cast your bullets in the normal manner, saving several scrap bullets. Size your bullets but do not lubricate them. Place several scrap bullets on a pan in your oven at 450 degrees and increase the temperature until the bullets start to melt or slump. Be sure to use an accurate oven thermometer and a pan that will not be used again for food. Once the bullets start to melt or slump, back off the temperature about 5 to 10 degrees and slide in your first batch of good bullets. Leave these in the oven for a half hour. Remove the bullets from the oven and plunge them into cool water. Allow them to cool thoroughly. When you are ready to lubricate, install a sizing die .001" larger than the one used to initially size them. This will prevent the sides of the bullets from work-softening from contact with the sizing die. Next apply gas checks if required and lubricate. These are now ready for loading.

https://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/...et-casting.php Thats all i got, i'm not an expert. Good luck.

[blikseme300]

Have you measured your throat? Make a pound cast with pure - then we can talk about fit as well. Sometimes we get lucky and everything fits the first time. The rest of the time we have to go back to basics. Measuring with a micrometer gives you hard data from which to start.

Good advise. I read up on the barrel the OP has and it is stated that the freebore is generous by design so bore size is but one indicator.

[HangFireW8]

Measuring brass expansion just above extractor groove.

With a wildcat? This method was developed with NEW brass only.