Question for the group

[Ellis]

Is there any way to cast brass or copper boolits using traditional moulds either steel or aluminium? I would like to try and make some solids for my .48 socom.
Another question, does anyone have any experience loading 500 gr. boolits in the .458? I am trying to work up a load and having very little luck finding any data for this round.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

[JSnover]

Nope. The melting temperatures are way hotter than you want to get your molds.
Better off having someone turn them on a lathe.

[M-Tecs]

Depending on alloy brass melts at 1652 - 1724. This is way to hot for normal bullet cast equipment. Solids are normally lathe turned not cast.

Part of the reason you aren't finding data is most shoot the 458 SOCOM out of AR. The 500 grain bullets long of the magazine.

http://www.reloadammo.com/458-socom.htm

http://458socomforums.com/index.php?board=24.0

[Ellis]

I have loaded some up, and was worried they may be seated too deep in the case. I take it from your reply that the seating depth would cause an over pressure load?

[Ellis]

Thanks for the links, I had seen the first one, but was unaware of the second.

[Ellis]

That was my next option, I just wasn't ready to try my hand at turning them.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Basically no. The melting points are so high that they would surely warp a steel or iron mould, or destroy any other kind in short order. Also heat loss is proportional to the difference in temperature between the metal and the air, mould etc. I doubt if you could cast as precisely, even, as in lead which is only barely hot enough to flow.

Jewellers use centrifugal casting, to force gold or silver into a ceramic mould with greater force than gravity can provide. I am sure someone would do this for you, in some kind of hard metal. Take a look at the various parts available in steel and brass in www.trackofthewolf.com . I have just bought one of their trigger guards, and it is a thing of beauty modern art does not know. But you would still have shrinkage, which is unlikely to be quite as consistent as you would want in a bullet.

Corbins say you can swage just about anything. But the cost of equipment is only justifiable for someone who knows for sure he has a use or a market for a very large number of copper bullets. A much cheaper possibility which I have just thought of is to mould high temperature epoxy and metal powder in a little cup chucked in a Dremel tool or high-speed drill, and spin it so that the metal becomes much more highly concentrated on the surface. It might be an entirely worthless idea, but if it works, you heard of it here first.

[Ellis]

Wow, you just gave me a grade A brain fart!!! For some silly reason I salvaged a coffee can full of brass grindings from a key machine. Now to figure out a way to mix something that would hold together, but not stick in a mould.....

[runfiverun]

wax the mold.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Brass is a difficult animal to cast. It has to be protected from the atmosphere usually with a layer of glass on top. This is to prevent the zinc from gassing off.

Brass is Copper and Zinc, Bronze is Copper and Tin,which doesn't gas off when heated so it was easier to cast with primitive methods.

That is why there was a "Bronze Age," and not a "Brass Age." Brass is too problematic to cast. It can be done, it's just not easy.

All those bullets you see are being turned on CNC Lathes that have nothing else to do. They are making bullets just to keep the machines running. I have one sitting idle in my shop and have considered making bullets, but haven't actually decided to do it due to the liability issues.

Randy

[Shiloh]

Is there any way to cast brass or copper boolits using traditional moulds either steel or aluminium? I would like to try and make some solids for my .48 socom.

No

Shiloh

[bangerjim]

As Joe Pesci says......"Forget about it"

I have cast brass in the past (NOT BOOLITS!!!!!!) and it is a very tricky animal, what with the very high temps and using GLASS as the flux on the surface! Not something you will use in you standard boolit molds. Brass is generally cast in either lost wax investment (one time use) plaster molds or sand molds.....again ONE time usage. Setting up a cope and drag with large brass items is not that bad, but trying it for teeny weeny little boolits........O......M......G!

Just stick with Pb as millions of us do. If you want brass/copper, consider investing $1k or much more (!) in swaging dies and presses to jacket you own Pb wire.

Stick with Pb.......Pb is good...........Pb is your friend.

banger

[runfiverun]

1-k would get you the [umm a] press almost.
a good heavy duty one is more like 1600 and it won't swage brass [brass jackets yes, solid brass NO]

[bangerjim]

That $1K+ is assuming you make the press yourself!!!!!!!!!! Good plans on here. Not worth it to me and my needs. That kind of money buys a ton of com jacketed boolits.

[runfiverun]

could but it don't buy the same feeling you get when you shoot 1/2" groups with your own bullets.

[WFO2]

Try here https://cuttingedgebullets.com/cgi-b...&category=8458 or do a search on Monolithic Bullets .

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Wow, you just gave me a grade A brain fart!!! For some silly reason I salvaged a coffee can full of brass grindings from a key machine. Now to figure out a way to mix something that would hold together, but not stick in a mould.....

r
Stand clear of the brain! But I would hate to have anyone think it was more than an idea that might interest someone prepared to find it a blind alley. I'd be especially doubtful about the sort of chips you get from cutting keys, which are coarse and mostly elongated. Log jams in rivers are lumpy! I think you would get those filings carried an uneven distance towards the outside by centrifugal force, and thus an unbalanced bullet. IF it can be made to work, I think it would be with very fine powder, possibly the sort that are used for the resin in metallic-looking fiberglass items.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

could but it don't buy the same feeling you get when you shoot 1/2" groups with your own bullets.

t

Neither it would, but if I am to get the feeling of not getting 1/2in. groups, I would rather get it cheap.

I'm not sure that in this thread the copper bullets came first, and the reasons for them came afterwards. Aluminium would be very easy to turn really smoothly and gives a good bearing surface on steel, and is cheap. Then you can find a good reason in trying for the ultimate velocity.

That would be a good time to have a .303 or .375 rifle and a lathe collet to hold the rod, as metal rods are readily available in 5/16 and 3/8in. You could even cut off full wadcutter bullets with a saw.

[Ellis]

1-k would get you the [umm a] press almost.
a good heavy duty one is more like 1600 and it won't swage brass [brass jackets yes, solid brass NO]

I am a knife maker, and forge my own damascus, a few years back I built a 45 ton powered hydraulic press, I never considered swedging with it... It may not be too hard to make up a die holder

[dverna]

As usual, bangerjim has given you good advice. I have never seen the advantages of a solid copper bullet. Jacketed bullets have excellent accuracy and perform well on game. They are cost effective and can be produced, if one wishes to make the investment.

For the vast majority of most shooting, cast bullets offer a cheap and effective projectile. Unless of course one is looking at varmint and long range target applications. For a .458 SOCOM, you just want to hit something HARD. And cast bullets are up to the task.