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Thread: 30-30 shoulder setback

  1. #41
    Boolit Bub Foggy1111's Avatar
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    I developed those Stoney Point tools back "in the day". First the OAL Gauge and Modified Cases, then the Bullet Comparator and inserts....and then the Headspace Gauges....and finally the Rim-thickenss gauges for rimfire ammo.. Now......those products are all made by Horandy whom is doing a great job from what I understand....but made much the way Stoney Point made 'em. Pretty simple, and straight forward concepts and easy to use for those seeking improved loads and accuracy.

    The Headspace Gauges came about when I realized that most of the bottleneck cases made at that time, had standard SAMMI "datum lines" dimensions called out on the shoulders of those cases that were meant to measure chambers and cases. Only a few dimensions actually.. At this point in time....most of these dimensions and proper sizing were pretty much left to the imagination....as nobody was able to measure such things as a datum line (some arbitrary point on the shoulder) to the case head. This gauge resolved that point.

    So......I set out to do this via a simple set of gauges. Are they perfect for anyone and everybody? I suppose not. But they can and do separate differences in fired and unfired cases from one another, in order to set up dies, and a host of other things. Are they the "end all" in case size determinations? Maybe....maybe not. Some of these things are quite elusive. So many variables exist and some were not able to be even discussed until this (or other) gauges came to be.

    Still, at the end of the day, these gauges will give you good ideas on case dimentional changes and the ability to re-size your cases to property fit the chambers of your guns. I'm pretty proud of what these products are able to provide for the avid reloader, and I think this product provides more insight than what was / is available in the past. Some like smoke and mirrors......some like facts and data. I prefer the latter.
    Last edited by Foggy1111; 11-13-2018 at 01:01 AM.

  2. #42
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
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    3,702
    Quote Originally Posted by stubbicatt View Post
    Fellas. I recently purchased the insert for my Hornady (nee Stoney Point) comparator to measure the shoulder on the venerable 30-30. I haven't used it yet, as I haven't noodled my way through what I want to achieve with it yet.

    With a bolt action rifle, with Mauser style locking lugs, one strives for a .001 to .002 shoulder setback. With a semi auto, the number increases, with some suggestions at .003 to .005 shoulder setback. The litmus test being will your bolt easily close on your resized cases.

    Fast forward to the Model 94 Winchester. As I understand it, there is some springiness in the action, due to the rear locking lug arrangement, which in my view at least, suggests perhaps an approach in sizing akin to what one would use for a self loading rifle - .003 to .005" setback. The issue as I see it is, the action on my rifle in the last little bit of closing becomes rather notchy, and the locking block is beveled, so that the last ⅛" of lever travel sort of forces the locking block into battery, and forces the bolt closed, and god only knows whether the cartridge in the chamber is chambering readily or only due to the force of the action of the locking block bevel on the rear of the bolt.

    Like I said, I haven't measured any fired or sized cartridges, so I have no idea of how much shoulder growth I am experiencing, so I thought I'd throw this out there for any experiences you fellas may have BEFORE working thru this. I haven't even tried chambering "as fired" empties either. Assuming I'm getting shoulder growth on firing, anybody here opine as to what sort of setback I should strive for in resizing? I would like to make this brass last a long while.

    Thanks in advance for your consideration.

    Regards,
    Stubb.
    First off is it just a clunky action OR are the rounds tight ? Test it ! cycle it empty, cycle it with a factory round, cycle it with a fired case.
    If its stiff on your fired cases (proly but need to make sure) then set your size die up clear of the case on full stroke of the ram then just slow and careful adjust the die until the fired case JUST chambers without excess effort
    Things that bring us undone here ......case body swollen?......neck swollen from an oversize boolit?....... bump on the forward part of the neck from crimping? ----those last two are not cured by FL sizing the empty case .....
    Use a marker pen on the round to figure out where its sticking

    30/30 brass is cheap, you can just go ahead and full resize everything ?

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    May 2017
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    ahhhhhhhh !!! cant believe I fell in that hole - 2016 post - that one got a way !!!

  4. #44
    Boolit Master


    HangFireW8's Avatar
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    Foggy1111,

    Thanks for developing those gages. I still use my Stoney Points every time I reload bottleneck cases.

    John, 2 years too late, but no surprise on the 94 levers with backed out primers. All primers back out on firing. It takes pressure in the 40-50k and up range to stretch the case enough to reseat it.
    I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
    My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
    The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
    How to find and fix sizing die eccentricity problems.
    Do you trust your casting thermometer?
    A few musings.

  5. #45
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    56
    Thank you all for posting great information. I have used the head space gauges with good results for some of my rifles. I have a custom 7X57 AI that I used the gauge to check 06 cases run through a RCBS trim form die when I first got the gun. Put me in the ball park with 06 cases. I have found that using the trial and error method of chambering a sized case works better for the 7X57 since it a custom gun. I like this forum for the wide area of expertise on different reloading areas and the "get e'r done attitude here".

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check