wasting tin

[Oklahoma Rebel]

ok so I made a good size batch of 50-50-5% tin and people on here say I am wasting the tin, I have it in there for plasticity and to keep it from fracturing. I really don't want to melt that first batch down, about 75-80lbs of muffin ingots!so tell me why I should lower the amount on my next batches when peope used to use up to 16-1? thanks

[dragon813gt]

2% is all you need to aid in fill out. W/ the price of tin any more is wasting money. It's not that you can't add more. It's that you're spending more money than you have to. The past is the past and metal prices were a lot lower.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I understand that, its not about fillout it is about expansion and staying together at impact, will 2-3% be the same as 5%

[dilly]

I think you need more tin. I just want to mine the berm when you're done.

[jmort]

I like using tin. A balanced alloy, tin to antimony is a good thing. My favorite is 94/3/3. I don't agree that a 2% tin alloy will perform the same as a 5% tin alloy. In most cases it will not make a significant difference, but it is not the same. I also like a 20 to 1 alloy as well.

[RogerDat]

Because you are wasting the most expensive alloy people generally use in bullet casting. You could gain as much from $2 a pound antimonial lead as you can from $10 a pound tin. All that extra money in your 80# batch only manages to increase your alloy from 10.6 BHN to 11 BHN at a cost of $40 in tin, when less than $20 worth would have gotten the job done.

You don't need to re-melt! Just make a batch of plain 50/50 with no tin then cast bullets with with half those pucks and half of your 5% tin pucks and you have dropped your tin to 2.5% and better ratio to mix the two batches at would be 1.5 lbs. of 50/50 for every 1 lb. of your current high tin mix. You still end up with approx. 10.4 BHN while getting a lot more bang for you buck with this 2% tin mix.

I do suggest marking the pucks so you can tell them apart.

Five pounds of 30% antimony 70% lead cost $19 while 30% tin 70% lead solder costs $40 and there is the ability of tin and antimony to alloy and be of greater benefit than the sum of their respective amounts. Lyman #2 with 5% of each alloy material gets major benefit from the two metals being able to alloy with each other in equal amounts. Also there is weight to consider, tin is less dense so the mold will be dropping bullets that weigh less than expected.

[dragon813gt]

I understand that, its not about fillout it is about expansion and staying together at impact, will 2-3% be the same as 5%

My hunting alloy is 96/2/2. No issues w/ expansion or staying together. Most people have settled on a 50/50 mix of WW and pure for this application. Basically you want antimony to harden and tin for ductility. Keep them in balance and everything works.

If you haven't read "From Ingot to Target" you should: http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

[bangerjim]

I use 2% max in everything. I have over 450# of the stuff and still do not waste it!

You will get the same performance with a balanced Sb alloy.

And yes..........things ARE different today! As a kid, I used to buy 1# ingots of pure Sn for 50¢ at my local hobby store to cast "tin" solders. Try that today. Roofing was PURE Sn on a lot of government-built buildings around me.

banger

[garym1a2]

for your 80 pounds of alloy I would not melt it down to save 2 pounds of tin.I like tin rich alloys and I only shoot paper. Tin make bullets flow nice and I have 200lbs+

ok so I made a good size batch of 50-50-5% tin and people on here say I am wasting the tin, I have it in there for plasticity and to keep it from fracturing. I really don't want to melt that first batch down, about 75-80lbs of muffin ingots!so tell me why I should lower the amount on my next batches when peope used to use up to 16-1? thanks

[fryboy]

Some have been known to shoot straight pewter ... So we know it can be done ,heck some boolits I cast I use straight lino,granted they only weigh about 53 grains but ...lolz ,I've also shot super soft ( almost pure ) alloy in low velocity 45 & 38 target type loadings - they shoot decently but unlike many other alloys at that velocity they expand and stay together ( even with the flying ashtray HP/hollow base
Now the question I have is do you harden/quench your castings ? If so tin starts to negate the positive effects of this sooner ( eg; they revert to softer sooner )

[runfiverun]

you also have free tin in a antimony alloy.
this tin breaks away from the SbSn chain.
it tries to re-bond with the lead but it's too slow.
this is reason enough to not over tin an antimonial alloy.

the ugly tin spots on the surface surrounded by soft spots of unalloyed lead is more of a reason.

if you want a lead/tin alloy make a lead tin alloy if you want a SbSn alloy use one, don't try to make one from the other.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

no I don't heat treat or quench, in fact I drrop the boolits from the mold into a deep tray of sawdust to slow cool them, I get great controlled expansion, while still getting awesome penetration, and the boolits stay together, they don't break apart or crumble at all. so the people saying that the alloy wont work, it already does, and about "ugly tin spots" never heard of 'em much less seen them, my boolits in this alloy are the prettiest boolits ive made

[runfiverun]

that's from the tin pooling on the surface.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

so you are saying 2% change will make the tin unmix and all pool at the surface?

[Oklahoma Rebel]

on my next batch I might go down to three, but no more.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

that got everybody to settle down, it isn't your alloys I am using, I just had a question, and I can hear you all screaming through the computer, STOP WASTING THE PRECIOUS TIN!PLEASE! lol I will mix some lead with the pucks or muffin ingots though, but it will be 2:1 tinned:lead or WW

[dragon813gt]

No one is yelling. You asked a question and didn't like the answers you were given. You are correct in that it's your alloy so do as you wish. You aren't gaining anything by running that high of a percentage. Read Fryxell'e book of you haven't. If you already did I would reread it because this type of thing is explained.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

no I don't heat treat or quench, in fact I drrop the boolits from the mold into a deep tray of sawdust to slow cool them, I get great controlled expansion, while still getting awesome penetration, and the boolits stay together, they don't break apart or crumble at all. so the people saying that the alloy wont work, it already does, and about "ugly tin spots" never heard of 'em much less seen them, my boolits in this alloy are the prettiest boolits ive made

I'm not sure why you are concerned about what other people think?
but then again, you did ask.

I use 94-3-3 for rifle, and I like how it casts and how it shoots...other people may have other thoughts, that's on them.
Good Luck.

[bangerjim]

Oh.....no, Uncle Bill. Here we go again!

"........can't we all just get along......?" (R King)

Any more, simple Q&A's on here end up in a verbal battle due to insufficient epidermis. This site is an opinion-based site and should be taken as such. And everybody has one!

[6622729]

I say shoot it tin rich if that's what makes you happy. I have recently buried myself in 50/50 and 40/60 solder and I plan to go tin rich too. I don't care about the pennies difference in cost. What will be fun for me is knowing I have vintage Dutch Boy and Bell Telephone tin and lead in my bullet alloys. Stuff that was mined and alloyed perhaps years before I was born (1963). The Dutch Boy dates from the late 1800's? I've seen it in a 1939 catalog for sure. The Bell is probably 1940's to maybe 1970's. It's about fun people, not about who can do it the cheapest. I have more lead and tin (pewter and solders) on hand than I can ever hope to use up and my family will have no idea what it's worth or how to dispose of it when I'm gone. Have FUN.